#28 – One-Year Anniversary Show

Mallory Boggs [00:01:14]:
So excited to be here. Thanks. Too little?

Ryan Doolittle [00:01:18]:
Well, you make so much magic happen, it only made sense to kind of pull you out of the hat and get page here.

Mallory Boggs [00:01:25]:
I don’t know how you come up with your little lines here, but like, it’s just magic constantly. You wanna talk about some magic there?

Ryan Doolittle [00:01:32]:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. It’s ask my wife. She says it’s not always magic, but, so let’s get right to it. I want to start off, and yes, she was our very first episode, so she will always hold a special place in my heart, but she really stands the test of time. Her name’s Jill Smith, intrican, and she was a teacher for over 30 years, which is enough, right? Like that you could, you could sail off into the sunset and live happily knowing you had done that. You had changed that many lives. But for her, that whole time while she was teaching how to write, she secretly wanted to be the one writing.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:10]:
So in retirement, she became a published author. She’s now got three books published, and that’s really hard to do, by the way, to write it and to get it published. She’s just such an inspiring person. And for me, it made me realize that we all have secret hopes and dreams that we, we kind of push down because maybe we’re scared we won’t be able to do it. We won’t be able to actually be as good as we think we might be. And she overcame that, and it really paid off. And I think. I think if other people take that lesson, they can do the same thing for themselves.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:44]:
What do you think?

Mallory Boggs [00:02:45]:
I agree. I feel like we so often, with the retire sooner network, hear from folks who are so interested in doing things like writing Orlando. I remember acting. That was one thing that came out. This is years ago, we were recording a commercial, and we had some actors come in who were in their, I think their sixties, and it was, I remember talking with one of the women, and she was like, oh, yeah, I retired, and I’ve always wanted to act, so I’ve just started taking it up. And now she ended in a commercial, which was so cool.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:14]:
Exactly.

Mallory Boggs [00:03:15]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:16]:
That’s exactly what I mean. Yeah. Like, just go for it. Right?

Mallory Boggs [00:03:19]:
Exactly. It’s like, like, it’s. I saw recently some kind of breakdown on how, like, just the timelines for different folks. And I think it was Colonel Sanders, who. From KFC.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:31]:
Yeah, he’s no chicken. Or maybe he is a chicken. I’m not sure.

Mallory Boggs [00:03:35]:
He wasn’t a spring chicken. Whenever he opened up KFC, it was. I think he was already in his fifties. There’s just, like, really, no, there’s no time limit on success in life. And I think so many people get to experience that joy after they get to feel like they can stop focusing on the paycheck and instead focus on the dream.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:57]:
Exactly. And I think what separates us from Colonel Sanders is that we want to give you the recipe for success. And I think he keeps his recipe hidden.

Mallory Boggs [00:04:06]:
Very successful.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:07]:
You’d have to really pay billions. Yeah. One other thing I wanted to say about Jill Smith. Intricate, and she has over, like, it’s not like she’s had this smooth sailing. She has a beautiful family, but she lost her husband to Lewy body dementia along the way, which has to be just devastating. And not even that could stop her. And I think also the rest of her family came together to help her get through that, to find a way to keep going. And so I think that general attitude of overcoming grief and finding purpose and being happy is just the best thing you can do in life, even in those tragic situations.

Mallory Boggs [00:04:47]:
I feel like that’s something that we’ve. I’ve also. I’ve seen it. Honestly, I’ve seen it with some people. I’ve seen anytime, like, I’ve personally gone through something, and I don’t want to say, like, my life’s been that hard. Let’s be very clear. I’ve been a very blunt individual. But.

Mallory Boggs [00:05:01]:
But anytime I’ve kind of gone through something difficult, I. It’s interesting to sort of see that, like, you know, you kind of need those lifelines where it’s something else outside of or bigger than Orlando, maybe not even bigger than, but just something different and totally unrelated to, like, all the other stuff that you’re going through to just keep you above water and keep you moving forward. And so I think having something, these core pursuits, this writing, this dream that she wanted, probably really helped her be able to grow and feel confident and kind of over, not move past the grief, because I don’t know if you ever truly, like, are able to get past that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:38]:
Right.

Mallory Boggs [00:05:39]:
Grow with it and become she has today.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:42]:
Exactly. And. And since you brought up core pursuits, and on a lighter note, I wanted to make sure to mention for Jill, that she has so many core pursuits and for people listening, those are. Those are hobbies that are more than hobbies. There are hobbies on steroids that get you out of bed in the morning, and she has so many, she had to skip yoga just to make it to the interview. So I thought that was a good sign.

Mallory Boggs [00:06:04]:
I loved that. I feel like that’s so common for a lot of our happy retirees that you’ve been interviewing this last year, is they are so busy, they’re just trying to squeeze you into the schedule.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:14]:
Exactly. Exactly. So many of them say, I didn’t think I’d be this busy, but they all are. So I think it’s pretty clear that happiness comes from staying busy, not from sitting on the Barca lounger.

Mallory Boggs [00:06:27]:
I totally agree. But I will say I think that they’re busy with things that they really enjoy. It’s not. It’s like sometimes you get in that mix where it’s just like, you gotta do all the things, and it’s not stuff you wanna do, but you’re just busy just to be like. It’s not that. It’s things that spark joy.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:45]:
Exactly. That’s like, in retirement, you can be busy with the things that you want to be busy with. That’s kind of the brass ring of retirement. So that wraps us up for Jill, and I want to go on to the next person who makes me laugh every time I think about her. She was just such a pleasure. Her name was Ingrid Ricard. The lesson for her is, if you can’t beat him, join him. So Ingrid had a successful career.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:10]:
Financially, everything’s on track. But she said to herself, you know what? Some people don’t mind being unhappy, but I’m not one of those people. I like to be happy. And what she loves doing is traveling. So she made a plan, so much so that on the day of her retirement, she got on a plane. Like, she didn’t even wait for the next day. Right? The cake was still in the kitchen at her office. Probably.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:36]:
She got on a plane, went to Costa Rica, and started this amazing retirement life of traveling. And she’s so smart that she noticed travel agents get, you know, perks and benefits. So she decided just to become a travel agent. I mean, mainly so that she could enjoy traveling more than she was before. And now all those exotic locales are write offs for her.

Mallory Boggs [00:08:01]:
Brilliant. It’s so smart.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:02]:
It’s so smart. And I know you’re someone who likes to travel, so part of me thinks you might become Ingrid Ricard one day.

Mallory Boggs [00:08:09]:
You know, if I’m smart enough, I absolutely will. I hope that I can pull that off. That would be the dream. You know what else I remember about her interview is how infectious her laugh was. Oh, my gosh.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:22]:
So much.

Mallory Boggs [00:08:24]:
She was just a hoot and a half. Oh, and then you know what else I loved about her interview, too, is I remember her talking about how, because she loved to travel so much and because she was a just a very busy individual, she. I think she said that, like, she was having a hard time with her love life and finding somebody keep up with. Yeah, that’s, you know, I I love it. She was like, she’s like, you know, if I find somebody who’s willing to travel with me, like, you know, I’m all about it. But she. She was traveling with friends. She was traveling solo.

Mallory Boggs [00:08:56]:
It was very inspirational because she was just doing what she was passionate about, and she was very excited traveling solo. She was talking about how she was able to make a ton of friends, and I think maybe just travel a little bit more at her own speed. And that’s one of those things. Traveling by myself scares me a little bit. So it was very inspirational to sort of hear her say how she was able to jump in and do that with confidence.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:21]:
Oh, absolutely. And I remember that moment because I didn’t expect her to go there. And she really went in and told us about her love life a little bit and how travel affected that. And I. She was just such a delight to just kind of tell us, to regale us with these stories of far flung, far flung fun. I guess you could say that was.

Mallory Boggs [00:09:41]:
The first episode where you asked for some boncincha, isn’t it?

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:44]:
The Bochinche report, which was trying to get some gossip out of each retiree. And Ingrid really was the godmother of Bocinche. And Mallory really, really lit up when we said the word hot gossip.

Mallory Boggs [00:09:57]:
I love hot gossip. Just so we’re very clear, it’s my favorite.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:04]:
All right, well, thank you, Ingrid. Thank you for, for bringing me endless smiles from now until eternity. Okay, so on the next lesson, this guy, this guy’s kind of a pro. He’s actually been in the retirement game writing about it before he retired. His name’s Rich Eisenberg. His career is, is really, really impressive. He’s written for USA Today, good housekeeping, CB’s, money watch. He spent ten years as a managing editor for PBS next Avenue.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:33]:
And a lot of our listeners know what next Avenue is. It’s sort of like they call it like the Sesame street for retirement because it has so much great educational value and really good writers, too. So anyway, Richard retired and his big thing was finding that balance between retiring and not retiring. And so he borrowed a phrase from a friend of his called unretirement. And that’s how he lives his life. He says he’s unretired. He still does a lot of work, but he doesn’t work when he doesn’t want to work. So that’s, I think, a big lesson for people.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:11]:
Just because you retire doesn’t mean you have to stop doing the thing you were doing. If you liked doing it, it just means you can kind of pick and choose when you’re going to do that. Mallory, what do you think about his choices and un retirement?

Mallory Boggs [00:11:23]:
So what I thought was really interesting with his interview is how much we have seen it echoed through every other interview that we’ve had. I know on the producer side of things, how many guests we’ve had who have given us pushback because they’re like, well, I’m kind of retired or I’m not really retired because they are that unretired where maybe they had a very long and fulfilling career previously. But to your point, they took that unretirement approach where they’re then able to focus on these passion projects, the writing, the travel agent. You know, we’ve talked to so many folks who’ve done a variety of different things. I know you just interviewed a guy who literally carves pumpkins.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:59]:
That’s right. Yeah.

Mallory Boggs [00:12:01]:
I’m so excited about that episode. But it’s so interesting to sort of see how people are able to take and craft retirement into something. You know, we used to think of it as you finished working, and then you would go and, I don’t know, putter around the garden. And now, really, I think we’re just seeing this new generation is coming in, and they’re very active and engaged, and they’re. They’re not slowing down so much as they’re just shifting gears.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:24]:
Exactly. I think that’s a really good way to put it, switching gears, because you’re not turning off all the gears, and the car is going to sit there and rust, you know?

Mallory Boggs [00:12:34]:
Exactly. Exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:35]:
You’re shifting. Yeah. You’re really good at this. Did you know that?

Mallory Boggs [00:12:39]:
Like, I’ve been doing this for a minute.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:44]:
And I had mentioned it when I was talking about rich, but his friend who wrote kind of was the guy who came up with the term unretirement. His name was Chris Forel, so you’re welcome to go and read his books on unretirement and baby boomers. I know that would make rich happy, and we love making rich happy. So on that note of being happy, I’m going to move on to our next lesson. This is a married couple, Gayle and Dixon Grimes. Now, what they did was they pulled this off after a career of, you know, raising kids and working, they kind of picked back up their love of playing the clarinet, and they took it all the way to Carnegie hall. Now, there’s the cliche. How do you get to Carnegie hall? Practice.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:28]:
And they did practice, but they also gave it time. And so I think the lesson here is know when to pull the clarinet out of the closet. We all have some kind of metaphorical clarinet sitting in our closet that we think, I. God, I’d really like to play that. Why did I stop playing that? But sometimes we think, I guess it’s too late. I’m never gonna pull that out of the closet. So, Gail and Dixon Grimes, like I said, the realities of life don’t really leave us all the time. We want to pursue our dreams.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:59]:
And as upstanding parents, they had jobs. They had responsibilities. They had to raise their kids and make sure enough money was coming in, food was on the table. But as soon as they saw that opening, they pulled that clarinet out of the closet and just went full force. They started their own clarinet group. They played in a local, kind of a. Kind of a famous local clarinet symphony group. And they kept it up.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:25]:
Kept it up, and finally applied to play at Carnegie hall and were accepted. And they said the moment of playing there and hearing the acoustics, the kind of famed acoustics of Carnegie hall was just one of the most breathtaking moments of their lives. Mallory, do you have a clarinet in the closet?

Mallory Boggs [00:14:43]:
It’s not a clarinet specifically, but I have. I like to say that I’m a core pursuit dabbler. I love picking up, like, little hobbies here and there. And so I’ve got, like, you know, a million different projects that are, like, started, partially finished, definitely not done now, like, in a couple different places. And I love to kind of pick those up. So I am absolutely on that train. But, you know, one thing I will, just to agree with what you’re saying with these guys, I. One thing that I really love, too, is, like, not only did, like, the clarinet bring them together, they met in band, I believe, in college.

Mallory Boggs [00:15:12]:
Isn’t that right?

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:14]:
Yes, they did. Yeah.

Mallory Boggs [00:15:15]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:16]:
I think they met at a football game because they were in the band.

Mallory Boggs [00:15:18]:
Yeah, yeah. And then. And then I remember them talking about how their children then, I think, also got into band. And so not only was this a passionate hobby that they had, they picked up when they were in retirement and, like, really followed through it, but I think their kids also got involved, and it became a little bit more of a family affair, even to a certain degree, which I think is so beautiful.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:38]:
I do, too. At least one of their sons also plays clarinet, and I think the other one is involved, too.

Mallory Boggs [00:15:45]:
Yeah. Yeah, I’m pretty sure. And then it’s interesting because it’s similar setup where it was a family hobby that kind of became enjoyed, but not necessarily clear that, because I know not everybody’s musically inclined, but I know we’ve got some friends whose parents retired and actually picked up a farm. They picked up some land. They started getting really into farming. The wife was really into. Into the kind of, like, herbs and everything, and their kids were also very into that. And so now they’ve got, you know, their kids are very involved at the farm.

Mallory Boggs [00:16:15]:
They’re very, like, then I take up all their time. They love it. And so I feel like this probably happens more often than we realize, and this is maybe something that we can explore as we keep going forward with this deal. But I could see how, you know, when you have things that are core pursuits. As a happy retiree, I’d be interested to sort of see how much of that kind of falls in, you know, the family and, like, the children and grandchildren even ultimately also end up taking part in these core pursuits and really enjoying and loving them. My aunts and uncles and cousins love tennis. Oh, that’s a huge thing for them. They’ll have them in the US Open.

Mallory Boggs [00:16:50]:
Like, it’s. They’ll play all the time. All the time. Very competitive. I can’t get on the courts with them. It’s terrible. But. But it’s.

Mallory Boggs [00:16:58]:
It’s just interesting to sort of see whatever these kind of family dynamics, I think, spring up around these corporations.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:04]:
Yeah, exactly. And I want to clarify, so were they farmers at all before, or that was just something they decided to do?

Mallory Boggs [00:17:12]:
It was. I think they had maybe grown up around some property, but they actually, in their previous life, the husband was a. I don’t want to say he was a roofer. He had a roofing company, and the wife was a teacher. And then they both retired onto some property and started farming. And it’s. And they’ve just sort of let that grow, and that property has just become a huge piece of their life that they love and they’re very passionate about, and it’s really beautiful to see.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:37]:
Well, I feel like farming is very fertile territory.

Mallory Boggs [00:17:40]:
You know, you might say it grew deep roots.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:46]:
Yes, exactly. Okay. Well, during that, you mentioned the word dabble, and so I can’t. I would be remisse if we’re going to talk about dabbling, not to talk about the dabble master. Her name is Nancy Crewe, and her lesson to me was retirement is a guilt free excuse to dabble. I tend to have some perfectionist qualities, if you want to use the word qualities, because it doesn’t mean that everything I do is perfect. It means a lot of times I don’t even do the thing I want to do because I’m worried about it not being perfect. But what Nancy taught me was she uses the word dilettante, which is a fancier word.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:27]:
And so I had to actually go to the dictionary to look it up. It’s a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge. And Nancy the dabbler became Nancy the dilettante in retirement, because she tries all sorts of things and doesn’t put pressure on herself to become an expert. I mean, she’s doing oil painting, knitting, video editing, home renovation, playwriting, screenwriting, fiction writing, life drawing, singing in a choir, photography. You get the point. She’s up to her elbows in dabbles, and it’s bringing her happiness because she’s just enjoying it. And the ones she likes, she keeps doing. The ones she doesn’t, she stops doing.

Ryan Doolittle [00:19:09]:
And this is a person who was extremely successful working at a newspaper, and she still writes when she wants to, and she’s sort of sought after, so she’s able to say yes or no. I don’t know. I thought it was. It’s weird to be inspired by someone who calls themselves a dilettante, but I am, and I love Nancy crue. And I could see you doing some dabbling.

Mallory Boggs [00:19:30]:
Oh, absolutely. And I need to steal that word. I need to get better about using it. Dilettante.

Ryan Doolittle [00:19:36]:
Yeah, dilettante. It’s a nice word.

Mallory Boggs [00:19:39]:
It’s a beautiful word. And, like. And so accurate. Yeah. Like, but I love that. That’s absolutely my mo. And it’s interesting because I think what she was talking about really kind of comes back to a lot of. We had an interview several years ago on retire sooner podcast with Wes, where he was interviewing a guy who wrote the book called Beginners, if I’m remembering correctly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:03]:
Tom Vanderbilt.

Mallory Boggs [00:20:05]:
Yes. Thank you. And it was so interesting because Tom Vanderbilt’s whole thing was just getting comfortable with this idea of being a beginner. And it’s something that I think that as we get older, we are all inherently much less comfortable with. We feel like when we do something, we should be good at it. We should be good at it immediately. And if we’re not good at it, it’s not worthwhile. And his argument was, why? That’s just not how it works.

Mallory Boggs [00:20:26]:
Be okay with learning and trying and doing and embracing that curiosity. And I think a lot of what her ethos is really mimics that, and it really complements that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:38]:
Absolutely. And I’m so glad you brought up beginners, because. And for people I’m sure everyone knows, Wes Moss, who hosts the retire sooner podcast. That’s the mothership. We’re on the retired sooner network, and that’s the big show. Right. So we love lessons that we can learn from Wes. He’s taught us a lot.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:55]:
And it’s interesting when something really sticks with him. Cause he’s got a lot coming at him. And I’ve noticed that he brings up Tom Vanderbilt fairly often, so I could tell it really stuck with him.

Mallory Boggs [00:21:06]:
Totally agree. And I think hearing from an expert that it’s okay to be bad at something is so rare these days. And nowadays I feel like everybody’s like, if it’s not perfect, if it’s not great, don’t do it. And to have people like Nancy Crue and Tom Vanderbilt saying, don’t worry about that. Just focus on. Just focus on the doing is so fun. It’s so freeing. And it sounds exactly like what I want for retirement.

Mallory Boggs [00:21:27]:
If I’m not worried about it being excellent, like, I’m just worried about doing it. This sounds joyful.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:33]:
Yes, me too. This is a lesson I’m definitely gonna take to heart. I’m gonna do the work, as they say. I’m gonna do the work and try to be a dilettante. But speaking of being a doer, the next person that I wanna talk about, I’m a big fan of his. So I’ve listened to him a lot over the years, and I remember him talking about his career and saying, you know, I didn’t really want to just learn, I wanted to do. And so he was a radio host and he sort of just jumped in and I don’t, the radio back in the day, back in the, I don’t know, seventies, eighties was more Wild west territory. You just kind of like, jumped.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:13]:
And he ended up starting at a very small radio station in Ventura, California, which is about an hour north of LA. And one day he’s hosting his radio show, no callers recalling it. So he’s just sitting there by himself, because if you can imagine the panic you have to create just by yourself. So what he did was he pretended to be a caller and called himself and ended up arguing with himself. So listeners are listening to this and they’re really mad at the caller, but the caller’s actually him. And it’s just, it’s like this magical dance that no one has the talent to pull off except him. His name’s Phil Hendry, and he took this all the way to nationally syndicated radio, became, you know, big, successful show. But what I learned from him is that as the radio business changed, he had to change.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:05]:
And his multiple streams of talent acted as like a way to diversify his life’s portfolio. So I think you need to have multiple streams, not just of income, but of talent or of interests, of curiosity, because Phil, as the radio business changed and it became a little harder at times, there’s still some great radio shows out there, but it became a little harder to earn the living he was making in terrestrial radio. He developed a podcast, which does really well, using some of the same skills that he was using on the radio then, because he’s a talented guy, he started doing voice work on movies and tv shows. He started acting in movies and tv shows, and he took his old radio material, repurposed it, and sells it to people who are like Phil Hendry Superfans, and they subscribe and listen to his old things whenever they want. So I just found it. Even though Phil isn’t retired. I thought, like you said, switching gears. That’s really the way to look at retirement.

Ryan Doolittle [00:24:08]:
I mean, we could just get rid of the word retirement and think of it as switching gears. I think people might approach it in the way we’re hoping they will because Phil isn’t retired, but Phil is doing what retirees should do. Is that, does that make sense to you, Mallory?

Mallory Boggs [00:24:25]:
That makes perfect sense. I think you’re nail on the head. I totally agree. Well, it’s interesting because I hadn’t put it together. So I’m really glad that you’re kind of getting this all together and you’ve like pulled this because, you know, with Phil Hendry, with the way that he was able to kind of take and morph what he had done with his career and then turning it into that multiple streams of talent where he was like just sort of, it wasn’t, it was switching gears. You’re right. But what’s thinking about it? And we’ve actually heard that from so many other retirees where it’s, you know, they maybe stop working that traditional nine to five in the office, but maybe they’re still doing the books in their free time or they’re, you know, they’re switching to like working from home four days a week or maybe they’re taking their skills that they previously had and using it for a nonprofit. Like, it’s a, it’s so interesting to sort of think about.

Mallory Boggs [00:25:13]:
You’re right. I think these retirees, these happy retirees specifically, are really taking, they’re taking their talent they’ve maybe cultivated in their career and switching gears. So it’s more of that. Multiple streams of talent.

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:27]:
Yeah. I mean, if you’re going to diversify your portfolio, why can’t you diversify your life?

Mallory Boggs [00:25:32]:
Oh, there it is. There it is. That’s exactly what we needed. Yes. Thank you.

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:36]:
Yes. And for people who are interested, Phil Hendry, there’s a great documentary that just came out about him called Hendry, and it’s got some real comedy heavy hitters in it, like Judd Apatow and Bill Hader from SNL and a million movies. So if you want to go watch that to get a sense of what we’re talking about, that’s a good place to go. But speaking of sort of the celebrity life, this next lesson is very, very celebrity related to. So I went to the Santa Barbara zoo. My wife and I took our son there because kids love zoos and honestly, so do I. And we went and it was just so great. And one of the best attractions at the zoo was this little, I guess, cute train that drives around the perimeter so you can see the animals, and there’s a train conductor.

Ryan Doolittle [00:26:26]:
But he also kind of does, like, stand up comedy as he tells you about the animals, you know, like, there’s a little alligator on the side, and they’re like, oh, they’d love you if you’d give them a hand. You know, stuff like that, which is right up my alley. Cause I’m a dad, and I love dad jokes. So I was so sort of, like, delighted that I asked them. I asked these train conductors if they would be on the show, and they said yes. So I went back and recorded an episode with Pete and Andy, and what I learned from them getting back to celebrity is that even Katy Perry wants to ride the retirement train. Now, I’m not saying Katy Perry’s retired, but I am saying Katy Perry got on the train and let them drive her around and seem to have a great time. If you’re looking at pictures from the tabloids, which they were happy to show me.

Ryan Doolittle [00:27:16]:
And I think why Katy Perry probably enjoyed this train is why Pete and Andy do and why I did. Because they’re doing something in their lives where they are helping people enjoy themselves. Because what Pete and Andy really showed, they’re both very successful guys in their regular lives. Before this, Pete, he owned an insurance company, did really well financially. Andy was really high up in the CIA, the Central Intelligence Agency. I mean, this guy’s, like, looking at terrorist files and stuff, and he gave that up. And now they both wear these, like, overalls and drive around on the train, and they don’t get paid a lot, and they’re, like, much happier. They feel like a demotion was a promotion, which I think is another theme that retirees can look at.

Ryan Doolittle [00:28:07]:
Sometimes getting a demotion to a less stressful job is actually, like, a much better deal. Like, they’re happier than they’ve ever been. And driving people around in this train, showing people the animals, reminded me what a zoo life can be. That you have to sometimes take things into your own hands and figure out how you wanted to look for yourself. I don’t know, Mari. Tell me, what kind of train rider would you be? Would you get on this train?

Mallory Boggs [00:28:36]:
Listen, I just got to take a second. I thought you were about to drop some kind of, like, serious dad joke there at the very end. You ran out for it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:28:43]:
I was like, you know, I would have. I couldn’t think of one, but I’m.

Mallory Boggs [00:28:48]:
Sure one will come to you. In a minute. I have no doubt. I have no doubt. I was waiting for it, though. But I will, I will tell you, I think I love this because you want to talk about such a one. What is it? 160 from what these guys were doing previously, looking at terrorist files, thinking about worst case scenarios with insurance and the cost of those. And now they’re just telling funny jokes on a train with kids and their parents in the zoo.

Mallory Boggs [00:29:11]:
I mean, like, talking about just moving to something so joyful, so fun. I think that these guys, I’m so glad you found them. They do just seem like the perfect example of these happy retirees where because they’re not doing it, they’re not doing it for the body. Let’s just be honest, this is a passion project, something they’re very excited about. And I think that that probably shines through to everyone that they interact with. Including Katy Perry.

Ryan Doolittle [00:29:39]:
Exactly. I mean, if it’s good enough for Katy Perry and Orlando Bloom, her husband, who was also in the picture, I think it’s good enough for us. Or at least for me. Maybe not. You might be even better than Katy Perry, Mallory.

Mallory Boggs [00:29:51]:
Oh, you’re, you’re so sweet. I don’t know if I’d say that, but let’s be very clear. I’m not going to say you’re better than Orlando Bloom because like, that man is more just.

Ryan Doolittle [00:30:02]:
I mean, as, as Andy said and maybe seeing Katy Perry and Orlando Bloom are part of the perks, but he’s this guy who was looking at like, what do we do about bin Laden? I mean, to go from that to now, all he has to think about is like, which otter gets which piece of fish he thinks. That’s a step up. And I have to say, I think it might be too.

Mallory Boggs [00:30:24]:
I would, I would agree with that. I would agree with that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:30:28]:
So moving to our next lesson, it reminds me, so as we said, Pete and Andy on that train, they were technically employees, but they’re not really making anywhere near the money they were in their careers. And to take that a step further, one thing that we found, and we’ve done a lot of surveys, when Wes Moss, who we mentioned earlier, was writing his book, you can retire sooner than you think, he surveyed 1350 people, retirees across 46 states, and to find out what they were doing so he could maybe share that with other people. And one of the things that he found was that volunteering was always near or at the top of the list of what these people were doing. So I thought it was really important to talk to a couple people who have put volunteering at the top of their own list, because volunteering means saying yes to happiness. And these two people, the first one we’ll talk about, her name was Penny Martinez. So she started saving money at six years old, and she started investing at 18. So I’ll just for a minute, I’ll not go into how jealous I am that she was so ahead. And I always feel like I’m constantly, like, I should have invested that sooner.

Ryan Doolittle [00:31:42]:
She made all the right choices, and her goal was to retire early, be debt free, and then find opportunities to give back to her community. And that’s exactly what she’s done. She accomplished all of those. She’s volunteer like, she volunteers full time. And again, not about the money, but she reads to children in elementary schools. She works in the kitchen at an emergency shelter. She writes holiday cards to care facility residents, picks up trash, supports a pregnancy center. I mean, I could go on and on and on.

Ryan Doolittle [00:32:10]:
She fights human trafficking, I will say, because that’s a big one for her. But Penny is so happy because I think what they figure out, these retirees who volunteer, is that giving to someone else makes you happier than, than taking. And I don’t know what you thought about that, Mallory, but to me, I looked at it as like, I hope I can do half of what Penny does to give back to my own community.

Mallory Boggs [00:32:36]:
I totally agree. I thought her story was so beautiful just in how she was so thoughtful in where all, and how all she was able to really give back. I think that one thing that people, one thing that happy retirees seem to have a great balance of is putting their time and energy thoughtfully towards these causes that they care about. And then also, oftentimes, I think we hear they also give donations. So it’s not necessarily one or the other is better or more in need. But I think ultimately, at the end of the day, just giving back and knowing that it’s about more than just us. I think it’s so easy, especially whenever people are in that crunch of life where you’ve got kids and you’re trying to make the bills and like, you know, you’re still trying to save. It’s a lot harder maybe to, like, look outside of yourself and spend that time or that money on others.

Mallory Boggs [00:33:26]:
But in retirement, you sort of get a little bit more of that breather because hopefully you have saved enough. Right? Hopefully your kids are independent and all their own and, you know, coming to you with more fun stuff rather than, like, needs necessarily. And so, yeah, you know, you’re able to kind of look bigger picture and beyond just yourself and your immediate. And I wish I could say more thoroughly with myself that I’ve given back more. I could say more definitively, like, how great it is, but I can certainly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:33:53]:
Imagine you give back every time I talk to you, so make sure you remember that.

Mallory Boggs [00:33:58]:
Well, thank you.

Ryan Doolittle [00:33:59]:
You’re a very giving person.

Mallory Boggs [00:34:02]:
Next time I come on, you’re like, no, Mallory, I’m going to say you said, I give back every time. Normally, you’re like, not again, Mallory.

Ryan Doolittle [00:34:12]:
Yeah, I know. It’s like I answer the phone, sort of like I’m scared. Yes. What do you want me to do now?

Mallory Boggs [00:34:19]:
I just need some help with x, y, and z. And then if you got more free time after that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:34:26]:
As Mallory says, the content monster’s hungry, and Mallory’s always the one forcing us to feed it.

Mallory Boggs [00:34:34]:
I just. I just want to make sure we get the message of happy retirees out there. I have no regret. But.

Ryan Doolittle [00:34:42]:
So Penny is just amazing. And the second person that I found who volunteers so much, his name is Tom, and he works on the USS Midway, which is a. It was an aircraft carrier that got turned into a museum down in San Diego, California. It’s a really spectacular museum. I highly recommend going. But the way that worked was his wife was horrified to discover that he had already saved enough money, and he was able to retire because that was going to mean he was home all the time, which I bet a lot of spouses can relate to. So she basically said, you got to do something. You can’t just hang out in my space all the time.

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:22]:
So he ended up getting this volunteer job on the USS Midway, like, sort of working in the security department and helping people around the. I don’t know if you call an aircraft carrier ship, forgive me, Navy guys, but he would help people around. And he told me that this is the best job he’s ever had, and he doesn’t even make a penny. And it’s like, the best. He’s so happy. And I actually ended up talking to his daughter, and she said, this volunteer job is, like, his third and favorite child. That’s how much he loves doing it.

Mallory Boggs [00:35:53]:
And I love so much.

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:54]:
Yeah. So, tom. Tom, just like Penny, even though he’s a completely different personality, volunteering is so powerful that it transcends personality. It just. That’s how good it is for the soul.

Mallory Boggs [00:36:08]:
Well, and I think. I think, to your point, they were very different people, and the volunteer programs that they were doing were very different as well. And so I wonder, maybe this is something else for us to study in the future, but I wonder how much. If you’re going to go and look, to start volunteering, you probably need to find an organization and a cause that really aligns with who you are and your values and. And things that you’re really passionate about. One thing he loved with his story is how his son was in the military, in the navy, I believe. And he.

Ryan Doolittle [00:36:42]:
Well, he flew for the marines. He would. Yeah.

Mallory Boggs [00:36:44]:
Yes.

Ryan Doolittle [00:36:44]:
Yeah.

Mallory Boggs [00:36:45]:
Which. Yeah. So he flew for the marines, and. And Tom found that they had a plane on the ship that was actually. I believe it was the one that his son flew. Is that correct?

Ryan Doolittle [00:36:55]:
Yes, yes. That was just randomly. The. The plane was on the. On the aircraft carrier. He looked at the serial number or however it’s, you know, categorized, and he. And he asked his son, did you ever fly this specific plane? And his son looked at his flight logs and said yes. So he donated some money to get his son’s name put on the.

Ryan Doolittle [00:37:17]:
On the plane.

Mallory Boggs [00:37:17]:
That’s so cool. You want to talk about, like, just a sign from the universe or God that, like, you know, your right place, right time. That was it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:37:25]:
Yeah, exactly. Yes. And it’s like, as he told me that, I’m sure he’s told this story a lot of times, but he was crying, telling me, or, you know, tearing up. So it’s still that powerful for him as I imagine it would be for anybody.

Mallory Boggs [00:37:38]:
That’s amazing.

Ryan Doolittle [00:37:40]:
So thank you, Penny. Thank you, Tom. You really inspired us with the volunteering aspect, of which, again, almost always tops the list of core pursuits from happy retirees. It’s usually either volunteering or travel. So between Ingrid Ricard, Penny Martinez, and Tom Giorgio, we have some really great core pursuit choosers in this group that we’ve compiled.

Mallory Boggs [00:38:02]:
Maybe we need to interview somebody who, like, travels to volunteer.

Ryan Doolittle [00:38:06]:
Wow. Well, combine it. Oh, my gosh. Okay, see, this is what producer Mallory does. She comes up with the episodes that we need. We’d be just kind of flailing out here without her.

Mallory Boggs [00:38:18]:
Oh, you’re so sweet. This is so great. I should have come on the show a lot sooner so I could just hear you say all these nice things about me.

Ryan Doolittle [00:38:25]:
Well, as people know, Mallory sometimes on Wes’s show retires sooner. And so I want to really butter her up so we can steal her over here because she’s got offers. You know, I’m very busy. Yes. All right, so speaking of offers, this next person, her name’s Nancy Volpe Behringer, and I am blown away. We were able to get her on the show. I think her episode deserves millions and millions of listens. She was the oldest designer to ever appear on the hit show Project Runway, which I was just blown away by when I heard that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:39:05]:
To be at that point in your life and still say, I’m going to do this, because I imagine going on a show like, that’s a lot of work and a lot of feeling insecure, like, am I good enough to do this? I’m going to be on tv with these designers. Is this, you know, on and on and on, and she just, like, gritted her teeth and did it. At 64, she made it to the finale at New York Fashion Week. And what she kind of specialized in for a lot of her designs was for people with disabilities. Like, designing a dress for someone in a wheelchair, she’s like, no problem. Prosthetic leg, you know, child’s play. Come on. I can do that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:39:40]:
Which I think is such a great attitude with. I imagine a lot of designers don’t have or don’t think about, because if you don’t have that challenge in your life, you just maybe aren’t thinking about it. But Nancy is. So she eventually created the vault by Volpe Behringer, which was the world’s first and only fully accessible designer luxury platform that offered adaptable options and complimentary consultations for the disabled community. She’s won a bunch of awards I won’t go into. She’s the star of Philadelphia’s fashion community, and she ended up designing a viral red carpet design for Grammy nominee and rapper Tiara wack.

Mallory Boggs [00:40:16]:
This was an amazing episode, and it’s interesting because I think a lot of this actually echoes back to the first point you made with Jill, where it’s somebody who really followed her dream in retirement. Getting onto the show was such a huge win and such a huge accomplishment to make so much later in life. And again, it kind of comes back to, there’s no age limit. I loved that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:40:38]:
Oh, absolutely. To be at that point and to work your way up to being on Project Runway and kind of being like, I don’t know, the hot new thing, who’s in her sixties is just, I know how hard it is. Well, at any age, to try something new, but I would imagine at that age, it’s even harder. Cause you’re thinking it already passed you by. But she doesn’t have that attitude. Well, she’s from Philadelphia, so she’s like rocky, right? The italian stallion. She just gets in the ring and ends up winning.

Mallory Boggs [00:41:09]:
She’s gonna get in there. She’s gonna do it. And it’s interesting because, actually. And now that I think about it, she’s really almost like an amalgamation of several of these. Right. Because she’s following her dream. It’s not volunteering, but she’s giving back with the disabled community and sort of showing that representation with them. And then she also is trying new things.

Mallory Boggs [00:41:26]:
So she’s really just. She’s checking several boxes for us in our happy retiree findings. Right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:41:32]:
Yeah. And that really relates to curiosity, which is a huge part of happiness in retirement. People that are curious and want to try things out, that’s a really good way to stay active and to stay sort of, like, interested in your life. Right. I if you’re not curious and you think you’ve done it, you know, then you’re just gonna not. You’re not gonna keep growing.

Mallory Boggs [00:41:55]:
Totally agreed. Totally agreed.

Ryan Doolittle [00:41:57]:
Yeah. Well, okay. Since Nancy was the oldest person to ever be on Project Runway, I have to now go to Michael Blowin, because Michael insists that being old is better than being young, and which I had never really heard this take before. This is a real hot take, and you come to the Happiest Retirees podcast when you want your hot takes or your hot gossip, your bochinche. But Michael, he was just no bones about it. He said, I love being old, so take that. And I did take that, and I took it to heart because he was such a charming guy. He was a film critic for the Boston Globe for years, and after doing this for years, one time in the middle of an awful movie, he just snapped.

Ryan Doolittle [00:42:43]:
And he stood up and yelled at the other critics. He was like, how can you endure this? This movie’s terrible. How can we just sit here and write about these terrible movies? I can’t do this anymore. So today, he’s much happier. He started a thoroughbred aftercare facility in Georgetown, Kentucky, called old friends, and he’s helped turn a modest mom and pop operation into a sprawling 236 acre farm. They even have satellite locations. And what they do is they help take care of horses who might be past their prime, who aren’t in demand anymore, but are still beautiful, gorgeous animals, and they help them have a good life. So not only is Michael retired, but the horses are retired.

Ryan Doolittle [00:43:25]:
So it’s like this retirement party on this horse farm.

Mallory Boggs [00:43:29]:
It sounds great, right? That’s a dream. I love that he was just like, all right, y’all, I’m over this. I’m gonna go get on a farm with retired racehorses. So incredible. I actually. I was out in Kentucky and Doolittle. I remember you texting me and you were like, yeah, I wanted you to go.

Ryan Doolittle [00:43:47]:
Yeah, I wanted you to go.

Mallory Boggs [00:43:51]:
I should have taken you up on it. Hello.

Ryan Doolittle [00:43:56]:
The big takeaway from Michael is that being old is better than being young.

Mallory Boggs [00:43:59]:
Yes, yes.

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:00]:
And the way he, the way he explained it was like, remember when you were young and everyone got to tell you what you had to do? No one tells me what to do. In fact, now that I’m this old, if I don’t want to go to someone’s birthday party, no one even gives me a hard time about it. They’re like, eh, he’s old. He doesn’t have to come.

Mallory Boggs [00:44:17]:
I love that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:18]:
It’s like a dream.

Mallory Boggs [00:44:19]:
Yes. Yeah, yeah. And it’s actually, it’s funny. It’s. I don’t know that we hear enough how much people, like, love to be on being older. You always hear that it’s always better than the other option. Right. Getting old is better than the other option.

Mallory Boggs [00:44:31]:
It’s not getting old.

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:32]:
Exactly. Or, like, not that bad.

Mallory Boggs [00:44:34]:
Right?

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:34]:
Yeah, that bad.

Mallory Boggs [00:44:35]:
Yeah. But to hear people just loving it and, like, that makes so much sense because, you know, when you’re younger, all you think about is, like, how great it’s going to be when you get older. So, like, why don’t we celebrate that more? Because to your point, I love this idea that, like, you know, if you don’t want to go to the birthday party, you don’t go. And nobody says a thing. That sounds so great.

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:52]:
Imagine a guilt free pass to not do the things you didn’t want to do. Well, you can get there. All you have to do is get old, you know? And I also want to say, like, I really wish I were the type of person who didn’t name drop, but I’m just not a big enough person. So I am going to name drop here because Michael, he’s good friends with celebrity Albert Brooks and Angie Dickinson. Like, these are the type of people who want to hang out with a guy who takes care of retired horses. Like, that’s, that’s the kind of guy who. It’s a very esteemed class of person.

Mallory Boggs [00:45:27]:
You know, I think you have to be a pretty esteemed class of person to, like, have a horse farm out in Kentucky with retired racehorses that are beautiful.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:35]:
Yes. Michael has won the Kentucky Derby of retirement.

Mallory Boggs [00:45:39]:
Yeah. Oh, that’s good. There it is.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:42]:
That’s good.

Mallory Boggs [00:45:43]:
But, yeah, and I think, and he loves it because he is getting older and he loves being older.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:47]:
Exactly. So Michael, I salute you. He’s another person that I smile every time I think of him. And he did. Part of it was moving his home from Boston to Kentucky. And speaking of moving homes, this next lesson I learned was from Ed and Cynthia, they went a little further. So they moved from the United States all the way to Ecuador and now they are expats living in Ecuador. And the reason this happened is during the financial crisis back in around, somewhere around 2008 when I, the real estate bubble burst and people were really hurting.

Ryan Doolittle [00:46:23]:
It really destroyed their retirement plans. Financially, you have some plans and when the economy goes away that can change those plans. So they started doing some research and looking at cost of living and they found this city called Cuenca, Ecuador. And kind of their expectation was maybe we can go there and make ends meet with what we have saved, what we’re going to be making with Social Security or, you know, whatever other income streams they had. And rather than making ends meet, they’re like thriving. They live in a 3000 square foot penthouse apartment and even with that they can still afford a housekeeper. They eat out a lot and they can cover all their health care costs. And I know for me I thought, yeah, but Cuenca, Ecuador, are you like, and this is going to sound really like ignorant american guy, but I was like, are you like in the jungle? I really have no idea what I’m picturing.

Ryan Doolittle [00:47:18]:
And they’re like, no, I walked to my yoga studio. It’s like, oh, that sounds like Brooklyn or something. So they really recommend that this is an option for people who might really be looking for a lower cost of living. And they’re not the only ones because according to the Social Security Administration, the number of retirees drawing Social Security outside of the US saw a staggering increase between 2007 and 2017. So I think Ed and Cynthia might really be on to something. If you have any desire to live somewhere else, it might be an option for you to have a happy retirement. What do you think?

Mallory Boggs [00:47:57]:
And one thing that I think it’s important to mention in this is they moved there so they could live exclusively on their Social Security, if I remember correctly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:48:04]:
I think you’re right. Yeah.

Mallory Boggs [00:48:06]:
So that’s, I mean, the idea of moving to a foreign country so that you can just keep a similar level of lifestyle while exclusively living on, I think that’s just incredible and I think it’s so smart. I think mostly though, you know what the big thing I think it is? I think it’s very adventurous.

Ryan Doolittle [00:48:25]:
Yes. Yeah.

Mallory Boggs [00:48:26]:
I definitely think that it’s very inspirational and something that for those who maybe are looking for in their, as they’re shifting gears to maybe try something more adventurous, especially if it’s maybe somebody who’s nothing been able to or maybe they have been able to in their day to day life, but they’re ready for a different kind of adventure. It’s such a great option and so inspirational. And they had great suggestions on other places, I think, that people could also potentially move to, which I love that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:48:53]:
Yeah. I think, in fact, they were saying when they were looking at Cuenca, it was not widely known. And now a lot of Americans have moved there. And so there’s other cities on the up and coming list of expat destinations. So, you know, like you said, it’s an adventurous thing. So some retirees are very adventurous, some aren’t. So you need to kind of look in the mirror and decide what kind of retiree you want to be. And if this is right for you, it might be a good option.

Ryan Doolittle [00:49:25]:
I mean, I can’t imagine having that kind of penthouse and still being able to afford anything else. Right?

Mallory Boggs [00:49:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. Here in America, it’s definitely lifestyle is going to look real different.

Ryan Doolittle [00:49:37]:
Exactly. Now if producer Mallory wants to kind of give us all a raise, maybe I could just do that here. But until then, I think Cuenca, Ecuador is, is a good option.

Mallory Boggs [00:49:49]:
Let me see what I can do.

Ryan Doolittle [00:49:51]:
Thank you. Thank you. And I just talked. Engineer Marissa is listening, too. She just nodded her head and said she’d like a raise, too. So next on the list, this is a guy that I interviewed recently, and he kind of fits into that mantra that I’ve had for a long time now, that if you have a british accent, you’re automatically smart and wise and interesting. But he actually is. He has the accent and he’s wise and smart and interesting.

Ryan Doolittle [00:50:21]:
And the takeaway that I got from him is that the biggest risk of all is never taking a risk. And this really helped me because I may have mentioned before, like, I have some perfectionistic tendencies that, where I can worry a problem to death and then I never actually do anything. So it’s like I just defeated myself. But the way he said that really made me kind of rethink it. Not taking a risk is just as bad as taking the risk and maybe failing. I mean, what’s the difference? At least you tried. So in his own life, he had done well financially, which I find is a theme with a lot of the happy retirees we’ve interviewed. They had the finances down, but the other part, the happiness part, was harder than they thought it would be.

Ryan Doolittle [00:51:11]:
So he looked at someone else wise with a german accent named Albert Einstein, who once said, look deep into nature and then you will understand everything better. So he gave it a shot and he kind of looked around, took some time to ponder, and what he noticed was like, hey, none of these polar bears leave with severance packages. I mean, I’m not seeing any Komodo dragons wearing gold watch that they got at their retirement party. So I think in nature the wildlife is either growing or dying. And he said, I don’t want to be dying, so I’m going to start growing. How do I do that? And so the way he did that was by changing the word retirement into rewirement or refirement and going out and creating a new identity for himself. So maybe he wasn’t growing in his career anymore, but he just got back from a safari where he ate ostrich steak in South Africa or he cycled in the rain in Vancouver. These are things he never would have done.

Ryan Doolittle [00:52:13]:
But the new George Jurgen does do those things because he’s reinvented who he is and what his goals are. So don’t think of retirement, George says, as a vacation because that’s going to last a week or two, and then you’re going to end up just stagnant. You have to figure out what you want to do and then go get it. And if it takes risks to get there, remember, it’s worse to never take those risks than it is to go for what you want to do. I think, Mallory, you might be someone who does take risks and you got it. You’re good at it. You take, you’re better than me. You go for it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:52:51]:
And it seems casual, but you’re really doing some hard things.

Mallory Boggs [00:52:54]:
You are so sweet. You, again, just fully compliment. I’m loving this, just so we’re very clear. But I do love a good, thoughtful risk. And I totally agree. I think that this is so interesting, but I do, I want to take a second. So I do want to take a second because you just said something that like, really hit me hard and that I really love the happy retirees. They’ve got the finance piece figured out and that is obviously important, but happiness is harder.

Mallory Boggs [00:53:17]:
And I think I love that. I think that’s, that’s so spot on for so many people because I know you’ve also reached out to a fair number of folks to, like, be on the show and they’re like, I don’t necessarily have the happy retiree piece thing figured out. And it’s not even that. They’re not hitting a lot of these boxes, but they’re not necessarily as confident in it. And so coming back to this, the biggest risk of all is not taking a risk. And that I think that we see that with every single person that we’ve just talked through.

Ryan Doolittle [00:53:43]:
Exactly. Yes. These people seem good at taking risks, and the rewards are so plain to see. Not everyone has their finances in order, but a lot of people think that’s the only thing you have to worry about. So it really doesn’t seem to work that way from these people that we’ve examined, these happy retirees that we’ve put in the petri dish or under the microscope because they were kind enough to let us even when they had the finances worked out, there were so many other challenges. And like you said, the happiness part, the lifestyle part is kind of harder.

Mallory Boggs [00:54:18]:
It is. And I think it’s because it probably shifts and changes so constantly and it’s so personal. A lot of it comes back to, you know, taking these risks, which people, I think inherently can be wary of. I think people don’t necessarily like change and especially like you like, or maybe you like change and you like risk whenever you can control certain things. Or like, maybe there’s like, you know what I mean? And I think it takes a lot of, it takes a lot of guts, it takes a lot of, or maybe it takes a lot of planning, or maybe it takes a lot of outlining what you are and aren’t comfortable with to take risks and to do that well. And I think that we, I love that George Jurgen kind of outlined that. I love that he’s going and eating ostrich steak like that is. I love, and I love that he learned that from polar bears that they’re not taking, they’re growing.

Mallory Boggs [00:55:04]:
I love that. I love that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:55:06]:
Yeah. There’s no, Komodo dragons aren’t wearing that gold watch you get when you retire. You know, they’re either living or dying.

Mallory Boggs [00:55:12]:
Hello.

Ryan Doolittle [00:55:14]:
As we sort of wrap up this amazing one year anniversary show, I want to thank our audience for giving us this opportunity to pay respects. That’s why I wore the tuxedo, because it really is like a grand occasion for us. Doing this show was a risk. When I look back at it now, I mean, we didn’t necessarily know it would take off. We had an idea. We took it to Wes and the marketing team, and they believed in us. And you seem to believe in us, too. And we promise.

Ryan Doolittle [00:55:46]:
Our promise here is that we’re going to keep going and we’re going to keep trying to find out how people can refocus that lens and ask, now that you’re grown up, what do you want to do? I mean, everyone always says, what do you want to be when you grow up? But now you’re grown up and this is the time you can actually maybe be what you want to be. You can reinvent yourself. And to help you get there, we’re going to keep going straight to the source, the happy retirees themselves. We’re going to find out the essence of their lives. We’re going to regale you with stories of their post career lifestyles. And we’re going to tell you where they stumbled, but we’re also going to tell you where they triumphed. So thank you so much for coming along on this ride, on this happy retirement train. Shout out to the Santa Barbara zoo.

Ryan Doolittle [00:56:31]:
Thank you for joining us. Mallory, I want to thank you for being on the show and really taking us up a level in terms of classy wisdom.

Mallory Boggs [00:56:39]:
You showed up in a talks and I was like, all right, better bring my a game. Thank you for having me, though. Seriously. I really appreciate it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:56:48]:
Well, thank you, too. And thank you to our engineer Marissa, who, you know, if it weren’t for her, I’d be talking to myself right now and no one would be listening to it. So. So thank you to her. And thank you to producer Lauren, who, who does such a great job. Wes, for being our godfather. Hollywasan, who, who’s always been in our quarter, everyone at Capital Investment advisors and on the retire sooner team. This is really, I don’t want to get too hokey, but this is kind of a dream come true for me, and I really hope that we’re helping other people become happier in their retirement.

Ryan Doolittle [00:57:20]:
So thank you so much for joining us.