#25 – Ending Ageism With Friendly Vibes: Jan Golden

Ryan Doolittle [00:00:17]:
Think about the last time you bought a birthday card. You were probably in a hurry, maybe even running late for the party that you needed the card for. You scanned the racks, noticing that the cards now cost more than the gift. But even more than that, you were overwhelmed by the bombardment of over the hill birthday sentiments, sagging body parts, balding heads, bad jokes about fading attractiveness. If you found it a little depressing, you’re not alone. Well, Jan golden decided to do something about it. Inspired by a greeting card contest called changing the narrative, she combined her graphic design, tech, and creativity skills to create a line of age friendly greeting cards. As she wound down her primary working career, she was able to jump in with both feet.

Ryan Doolittle [00:01:05]:
Now age friendly vibes is thriving, and Jan discovered that she absolutely loves doing it. Ageism can affect anyone, but it’s often directed at older people as you plan or execute your happy retirement journey, you won’t always be able to control when it rears its ugly head, but you can decide how to react to it. Listen to Jan’s story and be inspired by her mission to put age positive sentiments into the world one greeting card at a time. Now that’s what I call all the hallmarks of happiness. Do you ever wonder who you’ll be and what you’ll do after your career is over? Wouldn’t it be nice to hear stories from people who figured it out who are thriving in retirement? I’m Ryan Doolittle. After working with the retire sooner team for years and researching and writing about how they structure their lifestyles, I know there’s more to be learned, so I’m going straight to the source and taking you with me. My mission with the happiest retirees podcast is to inspire 1 million families to find happiness in retirement. I want to learn how to live an exceptional life from people who do it every day.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:15]:
Let’s get started. Well, Jan golden, thank you so much for joining us on the happiest Retirees podcast.

Jan Golden [00:02:23]:
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to chat with you.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:26]:
Oh, same here. And we were just talking about this, but Jan golden is your real name, and you live near Golden, Colorado?

Jan Golden [00:02:34]:
Yes, and I have a golden retriever.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:36]:
So it just couldn’t be more perfect.

Jan Golden [00:02:40]:
Right? You can’t make that stuff up. So. Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:02:43]:
How did you pull that off? You did. You. Were you already living near golden, or you’re like, oh, my name’s golden, so I’m gonna move there.

Jan Golden [00:02:51]:
No. Yeah, it was totally coincidental. So the whole thing and then the fact that I ended up with the golden retriever was too. But it’s just kind of. Kind of funny now. I used to hate my name growing up, and then as I get older, in fact, I was married and had changed my name, and I recently changed it back about five years ago.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:09]:
Oh.

Jan Golden [00:03:09]:
And I’m like, it’s a great name because it’s easy to spell, it’s easy to pronounce. Everybody gets what it is. So it’s a good stage name, too.

Ryan Doolittle [00:03:16]:
So, I mean, it really is. As someone with the last name Doolittle, I didn’t like that growing up, but now it’s an advantage because everyone remembers my name. Yeah. Okay, so why don’t you tell me a little bit about what you did during your primary working years? Just, you can just kind of skim through and then. Cause I really want to hear more about what you’re doing now.

Jan Golden [00:03:39]:
Yeah. Well, I spent about 35 years as a programmer in the IT arena, but as a kind of a coder developer, if you will. And as time went on and technology evolved, I ultimately ended up as a web developer. But a lot of people will say, oh, then build my little website for me. But I was a team member in a large team of people and someone who did the coding behind the scenes and not just applying content updates and things like that. So it was a great career to have. In fact, I just. I was able to work part time.

Jan Golden [00:04:16]:
I was a contractor and working from home for the past 15 years before it was even fashionable.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:22]:
Wow.

Jan Golden [00:04:23]:
And so, yeah, the career ended up later in life, providing me a lot of really great flexibility. I was working three days a week for, like, the past five years, which helped me be able to build this business. So.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:36]:
Okay. And I want to get into that because one of your big pieces of advice for future retirees was try transitioning with, like, a part time role.

Jan Golden [00:04:46]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:04:46]:
So compare that to, like, because you’re. I know people in your family that just quit cold turkey. Right. And they kind of struggled.

Jan Golden [00:04:53]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So for me, my path was more when I was 50, about. I’m 63 now. I just turned 63. But both of my parents died within about six months of each other. And I remember thinking, wow, I need. I think that legacy thing kind of kicked in. And also I was just like, I got to do something besides just working for another company and just being a good.

Jan Golden [00:05:17]:
I was a parent and, you know, spouse at the time, and I was like, I want to leave more in this world than just that. So I started to think about online businesses I could create on the side. And I settled on writing a blog with iPhone tips and tricks.

Ryan Doolittle [00:05:33]:
Okay.

Jan Golden [00:05:33]:
Which was really great experience it. I had a. I had a strong following. I was good at giving tips. I wasn’t so good at making money because I gave away all the tips. People were like, why would I take a course when I could just go back and read your newsletters? And I have everything I need. So I had fun with it. I did some coursework.

Jan Golden [00:05:55]:
I tried to sell some coursework, but ultimately I left the iPhone training up to Apple. It got to be pretty rapid changing. And, yeah, there was a lot of good things that came, and they do.

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:09]:
Know how to make money, so you just go leave that to them, I guess. Yeah, they have no problem making money.

Jan Golden [00:06:16]:
Yeah. But the part that was interesting is that it exposed me to older adults and the lack of confidence they have in tech when I’m in the tech field, and it’s like a lot of times the technology just doesn’t work. It’s not your fault, you know?

Ryan Doolittle [00:06:31]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:06:31]:
Nobody can use this website that doesn’t work or doesn’t work on a phone or whatever. So my mission was to try to help older adults, like, really, you know, have more confidence in tech. And then it got into workplace tech because of the technical divide. I myself was getting older and in this male dominated, youth oriented field of coders, you know, and so I was feeling the ageism and the come into play, maybe even, you know, 1015 years ago. And so that’s how I sort of got involved with ageism and especially workplace age discrimination, because I think a lot of people feel that ultimately in their careers that, you know, especially when you need to change jobs that I think LinkedIn has, you’re at like 45 and you’re too washed up to ever work again.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:20]:
I saw that. I think I saw a headline about that.

Jan Golden [00:07:24]:
Wow. I saw 20 plus good years.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:27]:
Yeah, you barely. By the time you get momentum going, you’re too old, apparently.

Jan Golden [00:07:31]:
Yeah, exactly. So anyway, that’s how I kind of got into the, became aware of ageism and age discrimination, and it’s part of a seed that was planted that I’m working on now today, so.

Ryan Doolittle [00:07:43]:
Well, it’s interesting that you talk about the confidence of older people with tech. I’ve noticed my. So my mom will ask me for help and, yeah, it’s like she, she’s actually pretty good at stuff, but she, she feels one, she feels bad asking, which I don’t mind, you know, and then she’ll. She’ll be a little hard on herself about not being good at something. And I’m just thinking, you know, you’re probably better at this than I would be, you know, like, so you’re ahead of the curve, you know?

Jan Golden [00:08:13]:
Yeah. And I always tell people they’re not any smarter than you. They just know how to Google. They just know how to google the answer.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:20]:
Right.

Jan Golden [00:08:22]:
So just figure out how to search for answers and, you know, YouTube, you can learn anything, right?

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:28]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny that the dynamic. My wife’s a little bit younger than me, and even with that, she. I have to ask her to. For like.

Jan Golden [00:08:40]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:40]:
You know, and I can tell I have a little son and he’s going to be teaching us. So it’s just kind of like the way it goes, you know?

Jan Golden [00:08:47]:
Yeah, exactly. But they don’t care about, you know, backing up devices or screen protectors or anything because, you know, the parents will just buy manufacture. Right. Yeah. They don’t have that responsibility that goes along with it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:08:59]:
Right.

Jan Golden [00:08:59]:
They’re free. So, anyway, it’s a, it’s an interesting, fun topic. I had a lot of. A lot of fun with that business, but ultimately, it was just the one that was sort of catapulted me into what I’m doing now. So.

Ryan Doolittle [00:09:12]:
Okay, and tell me what you’re doing now. And you know what the inspirational moment was that you wanted? You wanted people, you thought they were ready to hear a different message.

Jan Golden [00:09:21]:
Yeah, exactly. So I mentioned that I became aware of ageism, which is discrimination based on age, and it really impacts people in the workplace, but it also impacts people’s mindset and their longevity. So there’s research out by a woman named Doctor Becca Levy from Yale University, and she wrote a book called breaking the Age Code. And it basically proves that your mindset impacts your longevity by up to seven and a half years, and it impacts your health and wellness and everything about you. And I think it makes sense to me because I see peers of mine that either, especially when they get towards retirement age, they either decide that they’re done, they’re going to sit on a rocking chair and watch all the tv they want all day, or they think it’s like the best time in their life, they finally have the flexibility and freedom to move into this next chapter of life with a lot of rigor. And I feel like there’s two distinct mindsets. And the one who, the former that believes that life is over at retirement, they do end up getting more isolated, lonely, I imagine.

Ryan Doolittle [00:10:32]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:10:33]:
More health issues. And everybody knows people who are either on one side or the other. The pro ager who basically embraces the age that they are and then those that blame age for everything. So I started getting back to how I launched this business during COVID Like everybody else, I had a little extra time. And I have a graphic design background. And the organization in Denver here that I was volunteering for called changing the narrative is a pro age advocacy group. And they had an anti ageist birthday card contest, of all things. And so, yeah, I was like, and I was helping to volunteer, you know, sponsoring the contest, but I started googling clever, funny, snarky birthday cards and don’t do that because, oh, there’s a million of them.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:23]:
You’re like, bombarded with those.

Jan Golden [00:11:25]:
Yeah, it’s damn year old. You’re one year, happy birthday. You’re one year closer to the sweet release of death.

Ryan Doolittle [00:11:32]:
You know, I’ve noticed they start doing that at like, when people turn 30. I mean, those cards are everywhere. Yeah, yeah.

Jan Golden [00:11:41]:
So it’s fashionable in our culture to make fun of getting older, but it’s actually very harmful, too. And what was missing? Washington cards that actually aren’t afraid of talking about age but in a positive light because there’s also, you know, you could just skirt the issue altogether by giving them a card with a picture of a dog or a food pun or something.

Ryan Doolittle [00:12:03]:
Right. Yeah, but too safe topics.

Jan Golden [00:12:08]:
Yes, exactly. So I decided to, I started with some wordplay, and we’ve been flipping the script on some ages messages and concepts and just created some greeting cards and put them up for sale on Etsy. And they were a big hit. This was early in 2021. About six months into it, I decided that I really liked the business. I really enjoyed the creativity around it, kind of landing a message that made sense with people. But I also realized that the greeting card industry is a huge industry. I think there’s like, there’s billions of cards sold each year.

Jan Golden [00:12:46]:
I think it’s like 10 billion or 20 billion cards sold each year. It’s a huge industry. So I realized that I needed to learn as much as I could about the greeting card industry so I could get my cards in stores because on Etsy, one card at a time it was, you know, a lot of work to make $20 in a month. Yeah. So anyway, I immersed myself in the greeting card industry. Had a great time doing that. There was a greeting card association. I became a member of sort of volunteering, and then I ended up exhibiting at my first trade show.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:20]:
Oh.

Jan Golden [00:13:21]:
So I got myself out in front of stores. And so, yeah, the rest is kind of history. I keep 1ft in the pro age advocacy community. So there’s a big industry for support of elder care and senior services, you know, nursing home, assisted living, all the technology related, just supporting older adults. So I also started doing, like, buttons and stickers.

Ryan Doolittle [00:13:46]:
Oh, really?

Jan Golden [00:13:46]:
You’re not too old? Is that too late? Yeah. So I have a whole part of my business is all around just making people, you know, having buttons and stickers, declaring, you know, rethink how you think about aging. Just pro age swag, basically.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:02]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:14:03]:
For people to basically declare, you know, that it’s not so bad getting older. So, anyway, there was a big market there and the greeting card industry as well. I’ve had a lot of success with my designs. In fact, I was able to get a couple of cards on the shelves of Barnes and noble and paper source within a couple of years.

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:26]:
Really?

Jan Golden [00:14:27]:
And, yeah, most recently, my cards are licensed all across the US and in the UK, Australia and New Zealand through UK greetings and through Calypso cards. So that’s huge, isn’t it?

Ryan Doolittle [00:14:40]:
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jan Golden [00:14:43]:
I’ve had some success. So it’s a combination of, you know, I talk about it when in preparing for this interview, you asked a lot of great questions about retiring. But for me, it finally hit the sweet spot of being something that I love to do. I always have loved dabbling and graphic dine. I’m good at it. I’ve spent a lot of my career. I’m really familiar with tools, all the Adobe tools and, you know, Photoshop, illustrator, all those. The world needs it.

Jan Golden [00:15:13]:
These messages were not out there. So in the course of population is aging. So that’s. That helps as well. And then, you know, I figured out how to make money at it. So I’m finding myself, like, three years in saying, this is great. I wouldn’t have ever imagined being in the greeting card industry five years ago, but here I am.

Ryan Doolittle [00:15:33]:
I’m fascinated. I’ve always been fascinated with greeting cards, and my aims were less noble than yours. I just thought maybe I could come up with some jokes or something, but it was hard for me to figure out how one would jump in. So it sounds like you found your way in through these trade shows and volunteering. And did you just meet people who publish the cards? You mentioned the word license.

Jan Golden [00:15:57]:
Yeah. Yeah, I did. So there, you know, I knew I found a course that kind of fast tracked you on how to sell the stores, and I kind of bit the bullet and took that course. It was maybe a couple thousand dollars, but I knew that it was going to, you know, kind of get me where I needed to be, and that was a great, great thing to do. But then it was, I was ready to do my first trade show, which, by the way, I needed to have, like, 50 to 75 card designs, you know, wow, okay. In different categories. And they really helped you figure out, like, this is what a store is looking for, and here’s what you need to do to appeal to stores. So before I went to my first trade show, which was probably one year after I started, I decided I want to know some people.

Jan Golden [00:16:45]:
I want to have some friendly faces in the crowd, you know, when I. When I got there. And so I volunteered on a few committees for the greeting Card association, which was the organization that was sponsoring the biggest greeting card show of the year. And so that ended up being a great idea as well, because then I was just using my skills and talents. And I think this is a great tip for people, too. It’s like, find the people already doing it. There’s a lot of people willing to help and help me along the way. There’s a really great community for that.

Jan Golden [00:17:22]:
And then by the time I got to the trade show, I already knew half a dozen makers like myself. But I also knew the people on stage doing the intros and the keynotes and things like that because they were all part of the organizing committee. So, yeah, it turned out to be a really great strategy. So.

Ryan Doolittle [00:17:40]:
So it’s almost like when you’re starting your career and you take an internship, it sounds like you sort of did that. That way you’re around everybody. Okay. And are the people with the big shots who make the decisions to pick cards, are they there, too? And are they going around saying, like, I want you, I want you?

Jan Golden [00:18:02]:
Yeah, exactly. And they’re, you know, you have to display everything you’re doing, and, you know, you always have a first time, so you just sort of bite the bullet and do it. You know, you have your kind of first time doing anything, right? But you have to put yourself out there. I look back at some of my original cards now, and I’m just like, oh, I hope no one ever sees you know, but you kind of. But you also learn from other people that are there exhibiting. They’re always looking for fresh, new ideas. And I was getting some attention just for the uniqueness of my messaging. In fact, it’s pretty funny because, like, two women that were exhibiting next to me on either side had some of the damn year old cards in there.

Ryan Doolittle [00:18:43]:
Oh, no.

Jan Golden [00:18:45]:
Which they were kind of all over the place. So it was like, here I am, you know, and here’s an alternative. So. But it was cool because by the time, they weren’t aware of the impacts, and it was very interesting because a lot of people who support other social causes, you know, people of color or LGBTQ communities or the feminist movement, when they realized that ageism especially hurts your loved ones, you know, by giving him those kind of messages, I’ve been able to influence other makers in the greedy card industry, as well, which is really powerful. And those two women actually took down those cards, you know, at the end of the show and retired them, which is great. Which is where all those cards should go. They should be retired.

Ryan Doolittle [00:19:33]:
They should be recycled and put in the compost. Yeah. Wait, so these people saw your cards, and then you talked to them, and then they decided not to do the age?

Jan Golden [00:19:44]:
Yeah, it’s a little more than that, too, because I had, you know, I have an Instagram presence, and I’m actually active on LinkedIn, as well. And so, of course, knowing that, and then, you know, my previous with iPhone training, I knew I needed to be on social media. So I was comfortable there. I was comfortable being on camera, doing video, things like that. And so I had a pretty strong social media presence early on, too. And so I realized there, too, that people were following me, and I would, you know, here’s some new cards I’ve made. But then here’s the story behind the card, and here’s why it’s important to have these types of messages kind of thing. So that’s a place where I was able to kind of fill in the backstory of my line, as well.

Jan Golden [00:20:25]:
But, yeah, so it’s been a really great journey to put you put in all the effort and then to get people to respond the way you want and to get the reaction is awesome.

Ryan Doolittle [00:20:35]:
Well, for sure. And so just so I’m clear, it’s called age friendly vibes. That’s the company. Is that on the card?

Jan Golden [00:20:42]:
Yeah. Yeah, it is. And that’s my website, too. Agefriendlyvibes.com. and that’s where I am on Instagram and LinkedIn. I was going to call myself age friendly cards, but then I quickly realized I was going to do, like, stickers and buttons and some other things. And so I’m like, let’s go with. It’s a whole vibe.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:00]:
Why lock yourself into one merch item?

Jan Golden [00:21:02]:
Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:03]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:21:04]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:21:04]:
Okay. And so at this point, are you in enough stores that, I mean, I don’t get too much into the finances, but in your retirement, it’s one of your sources of income, is this?

Jan Golden [00:21:18]:
Yeah, exactly. And it’s a. It’s going to be. I just started about a month ago with these two licensing deals, which really provide me with a passive income stream. So I sold my designs, 25 of them, and they’re producing the card and through their sales channels, distributing them. And so right now I’m selling on my website, Onesie choose e cards to individual people, but the distribution through the stores and the larger markets are handled by these large companies that, that do that, so. Wow, that’s a great shift in my business as of late. But it came three years in, which was you, actually, by standards, pretty quick to get a licensing deal at a three year mark.

Jan Golden [00:22:06]:
And I really didn’t know that that was. I just kept open to possibilities. And I think in preparation for this interview as well, when I look at my peers, which part of it, too, is the intergenerational relationships, I’ve got people of all ages that are doing this business, but my run, some ways a little shorter.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:25]:
And so because you’re not 20 years old or whatever.

Jan Golden [00:22:28]:
Yeah, I’m not 30 or 40, thinking I’m going to be in this business for 2025 years. I’m thinking, you know, I got to make a goal of this in five years and try to figure out how to get out of it in another five. And so I don’t have it. So that kind of makes me, I don’t know if it’s taking more risks or just sort of, you know, and I set myself up not needing to make money and being realistic about that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:22:53]:
You mean you had saved enough before, you mean or.

Jan Golden [00:22:57]:
Yeah, that, and I kept my web development job, my three day a week job. In fact, I just quit that about six months ago.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:06]:
And that’s because you had started doing well enough with the cards, or.

Jan Golden [00:23:09]:
Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:10]:
Okay.

Jan Golden [00:23:11]:
I could see the path on getting to the point where I could not really replace that income, but I was nothing. I knew things were working and I could continue to build, and I think that’s important, too. That’s sort of personal decision for everybody. So the greeting card business is really a side hustle for me. And that’s another great recommendation that I have for people in, you know, later in their careers is just to start playing around with things that you like to do, you know, things that you love to do, thinking about the things that you do in life where you get so immersed on them that you lose track of time.

Ryan Doolittle [00:23:49]:
Those are the best, right?

Jan Golden [00:23:50]:
Yeah, exactly. And so the more you can recognize that, and then the more you can do of that, whether winter is gardening or riding your bike or whatever it is that you can do, just kind of trying to do more of those things that get you immersed in what you’re doing. And then I think it’s not a chore, you know, to do it well.

Ryan Doolittle [00:24:13]:
Exactly. And do you find that making greeting cards and working with age friendly vibes does that for you? You lose track of time sometimes, yeah.

Jan Golden [00:24:23]:
But you know, that the part, the reason that’s important is that it’s still a business to run and I’ve got to wear all the hats.

Ryan Doolittle [00:24:31]:
Do you do all the accounting and all that? You do all of that?

Jan Golden [00:24:34]:
Yeah, I do. You know, I have tools that help quickbooks and things like that, but I also do I have to fulfill orders and package ship. I have help doing that. I need to, you know, be on social media. I have to write and blog and figure out how to articulate, and I happen to like to write and things like that. So that part was good for me as well. But, yeah, that financial and accounting and forecasting, marketing and you’re the marketing, all that stuff. Yeah, exactly.

Jan Golden [00:25:06]:
Just strategically deciding what trade shows to, to go to and, you know, what kind of, what segment of the business you’re going after, all the things that you need to do to be a successful entrepreneur. But I think I’ve been able to draw on my experience through my career and then also from that iPhone training side hustle I did. I think I mentioned this, too. Too. But the thing that really inspires me and some of these, they’re mostly women. There’s a few men in the industry, but, you know, they would be, they’d have a few toddlers at home and a job, a day job, and they’re building a greeting card business and they’re doing it at night after they put their kids to bed.

Ryan Doolittle [00:25:48]:
I don’t know how.

Jan Golden [00:25:49]:
Yeah, on the weekends or whatever. So anyway, I was very inspired. Like, it’s like I can certainly find a couple hours a day or some time, carve out some time to work on this business so, so that part was, like, super inspiring is just seeing other people that were making it happen. Well, tell us anyway. I think if you wanted. I don’t know.

Ryan Doolittle [00:26:09]:
Oh, yeah. Well, also, real quick, I was going to say for your, you could have your shipping department for your company because you’re. Is it your sister worked for up or you had two, like, shipping people in your family who retired? I think so they might be looking.

Jan Golden [00:26:24]:
To pack up some boxes. Yeah, exactly. In fact, my husband retired from FedEx, and he, he, we call him my fulfillment specialist. He fulfills orders.

Ryan Doolittle [00:26:35]:
Yes.

Jan Golden [00:26:36]:
But it’s interesting to bring that up too, because I, you know, just the way your career and your life unfolds. I had my it career got interrupted when I was in my forties. I ended up right around September 11. I got laid off from a job that I had. And because the whole company kind of stopped working, not too much dissimilar to Covid. And I was a hiring manager, and I thought, well, I could find a job right away. And then September 11 happened and nobody was hiring for a while and things like that. So I had to reinvent myself and just kind of retool and try to figure out some different things to do.

Jan Golden [00:27:14]:
My sister, on the other hand, and my husband, who I met later in life, but they had these long careers where they were just working for these companies, very successful, but just going to work and doing their thing. And both of them worked very hard at what they did. And so by the time retirement day came, it was like, woohoo, you know, yeah, I’m done. I’m gonna sleep for a year.

Ryan Doolittle [00:27:39]:
They were the rocking chair mentality, right? That you mentioned.

Jan Golden [00:27:42]:
Yeah, exactly. Or just, I’m gonna rest. You know, it’s like they didn’t have any time to think about anything else that they would do, any other interests or their hobbies, because in that field, that was seasonal anyway. It was just both of them coincidentally just happened to be working at jobs that were very intense. But I think then you kind of get done resting and it’s like, now what? You know?

Ryan Doolittle [00:28:05]:
Yeah, exactly.

Jan Golden [00:28:07]:
What’s next for me? And then also the other big piece is how do I have the discipline to create my own job? Decide what to do next. You’re the person dictating what you do next, you know?

Ryan Doolittle [00:28:21]:
Right.

Jan Golden [00:28:21]:
So you can choose to do nothing.

Ryan Doolittle [00:28:25]:
Well, it’s kind of the greatest thing and also the scary thing, because no one’s giving you something to do. So you could potentially just be depressed or overwhelmed or if you do it.

Jan Golden [00:28:35]:
Right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:28:35]:
It’s better, but if you don’t, it could be scary.

Jan Golden [00:28:38]:
Yeah. In the last, you know, probably five years of my life, I worked three days a week as a contractor. And so on those three days, you know, I had my start time and my end day, and I didn’t have to, I didn’t think. I just did whatever I was asked to do. And then, of course, I thought, you know what I mean? But I was able to kind of, in the margins there, just figure out that I need to actually put tasks on my calendar. I have to block out time. I have some work that’s like deep work that I need to really think about, and I need to have more time than that. Anyway, it was just I learned, like, sort of time management skills, and I was able to sort of experiment with this entrepreneurial path and figure out how to make that work for me.

Jan Golden [00:29:21]:
So by the time I was transitioned, it’s like I already knew. I do a lot of planning and stuff and figure out and know what I’m going to do in a day or a month or a week, you know?

Ryan Doolittle [00:29:30]:
So it’s interesting because I think at least the old mentality was to get one of those jobs like your husband or sister had, where it’s locked in and you’re not, and you’re not going to get let go, or, and that is, there’s a lot to say for that. But I started in entertainment, and there’s no way to really work in entertainment without getting fired a lot because the show ends or you’re. So, so I guess what I’m getting at is my lack of consistent success is really going to come in handy for me once retirement gets here because I learned how to do it.

Jan Golden [00:30:04]:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So I think there’s a lot of people in that scenario, too. So that’s sort of the traditional view of retirement. And it’s like I built up either maybe a pension if you’re lucky still, or you’re definitely a retirement age, but you’ve got enough money now to live, but you don’t have the mental, the skills or the, you know, you don’t. It’s really hard to figure out what your, your next is, you know, for a lot of people.

Ryan Doolittle [00:30:29]:
So, yeah, I don’t know if you coined this word, but I love it. It’s, you said instead of retirement, it’s more of a rewirement.

Jan Golden [00:30:37]:
There’s a card for that. I do have a card for that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:30:39]:
Did you create that? You made that up?

Jan Golden [00:30:41]:
I don’t know I think I’ve heard it, too. It’s not bad. Uncommon. Like most words, somebody has set them somewhere somehow, you know, but providing context around it. But I do really feel like it’s more of a rewiring of just kind of thinking about what you’re going to do next or what, how you’re going to spend your time, which is one of your most valuable assets, is your time and energy.

Ryan Doolittle [00:31:04]:
That may have to be the title of this episode. Something with rewirement. It’s just so good. And you’re really, it kind of says it all of how to look at it, you know?

Jan Golden [00:31:14]:
Yeah, exactly. I do like to talk with people, especially that are in more traditional careers, just more about what are your plans? Like, what are you thinking about stepping into? Like, are you, you know, even just starting to volunteer or just explore your hobbies and interests with a little bit different lens on can really help, or start writing or start finding a cause that you’re passionate about that you want to get more involved in. There’s a lot of different ways to start exploring what might be good for you to do next.

Ryan Doolittle [00:31:45]:
But, and tell me so I know that as people reach that age, they are asked about retirement, when are you going to retire? Blah, blah, blah. And that annoys you, which I totally understand. You had a good comparison for it. It’s like asking a 30 year old woman when she’s going to have a baby or something. Which, right.

Jan Golden [00:32:04]:
Yeah, exactly. Especially in the ageism circles and the pro age advocacy. Like a lot of people, especially with people who want to work and they’re either able to work or they just want to keep working because they love what they’re doing. But just having this age of when you get to be 60 or 65, saying, when are you going to retire? When are you going to retire? You know, and it’s really a personal decision. You know, some people can’t afford to retire, like all the things that I just mentioned. But if somebody wants to bring up the subject, they’ll bring it up to you. Just like somebody who’s 30 years old that’s thinking about starting a family, they’ll bring it up to you. But hopefully people that are listening to this or people in your audience aren’t going up to young women and saying, when are you gonna have a baby? Which family members still do that, you know? But there’s can be very complicated for people, and it can be very painful.

Jan Golden [00:32:56]:
There can be a lot of layers to it. So I like to, whenever somebody asks me that question, just kind of say. Well, I don’t know if I want to share that with you. Right. Yeah. It’s complicated or whatever. Whatever. Because I want to continue working or, like I said, I don’t know the retirement definition, the traditional definition.

Jan Golden [00:33:18]:
I understand what it is, but I don’t feel like it applies to me, especially somebody who’s ramping up this business right now. And I want to have the energy and mindset to just keep going for another five to seven years, Jeff.

Ryan Doolittle [00:33:30]:
Yeah. Well, and you mentioned that with your shorter Runway, part of that plan is, is getting out in a certain amount of time.

Jan Golden [00:33:38]:
Yeah.

Ryan Doolittle [00:33:39]:
What makes you want to get out? You already know. You want to, you know, sit on a beach somewhere or what. What’s making you want to get out?

Jan Golden [00:33:45]:
Yeah. You know, and with everything, this is a great topic as well, because with everything that you pick up to do later in life, you have to think about what are the, what’s the practical consequence of this? And for me, it’s, I need to be in a place to ship orders. Oh, I need to be. Yeah. So I have a online store that’s open, and so I need to be in Denver. Like, what? I can’t really bring all my inventory with me and ship on the road if I want to go. And we do travel somewhat, but if I want to take more than a week off, I’ve got to change my shipping timeframes, closed out my shop, or else I have to find someone else to come in and take over. For me, it’s getting a little bit easier.

Jan Golden [00:34:24]:
But that’s sort of.

Ryan Doolittle [00:34:26]:
Right.

Jan Golden [00:34:26]:
What I mean as well. It’s like I found myself chained to the deck. A little more kind of equated to somebody who, like, wants to open a restaurant or a coffee shop or something. It’s like, you’ve got to be there.

Ryan Doolittle [00:34:37]:
Right.

Jan Golden [00:34:38]:
You’re the one who’s got to be there until you can get to the point where you can hand it up. And when I say I just want to get more out of the day to day operations and the person who’s making the decisions and that just be able to be. There’s people. There’s a path in this field to where you can just create designs or be like, a consultant and advise people, and then they go make stuff.

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:02]:
Exactly.

Jan Golden [00:35:03]:
And sell it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:04]:
Maybe you’ll become such a conglomerate that you’ll just have people doing that. They’ll be doing that at the warehouse, and you’ll be on a.

Jan Golden [00:35:11]:
Exactly. And I’ll be like, excuse me, my cell phone, you know, isn’t working on this sailboat I’m on, you know, here’s.

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:19]:
My genius idea now. Make it happen, you know?

Jan Golden [00:35:22]:
Yes, exactly. In fact, I know a woman who was born into a greeting card family. She’s 25, and she works from Bali, and she just sort of does that. And she has her team of designers, and I want to be like her when she grow up, too.

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:37]:
She was born. There’s a greeting card family like you’re born into.

Jan Golden [00:35:42]:
Oh, yeah. There. Really?

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:43]:
It’s like the Rockefeller of greeting cards is her last mark or maybe.

Jan Golden [00:35:49]:
Yeah, pretty close. Seriously? Yeah. It’s kind of like that type of situation.

Ryan Doolittle [00:35:54]:
Oh, my gosh.

Jan Golden [00:35:55]:
You know, the family. The grandparents started something, and her immediate parents are way into it and very successful, large businesses, and then. And she’s just following in the family footsteps. But she’s working from Bali, and I’m not, so. Right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:36:11]:
You’re gonna get there, Jan. You’re gonna get there.

Jan Golden [00:36:13]:
Yeah. But, you know, that’s where it gets back to if you’re passionate about what you’re doing, if you like what you’re doing and you love what you’re doing, it doesn’t feel like work, and you’re excited to wake up in the morning to do it. So it kind of makes those kind of sacrifices all worth it. But, you know, that’s the part in hopefully within the next five years that I’ll be completely out of is being the one that has to be back in a certain location to ship orders, you know? Yeah. Oversee that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:36:42]:
Well, you had said for the first time in your life, you feel icky. Guy, you want to go into that a little bit? Tell us what that means.

Jan Golden [00:36:49]:
Yeah. Ikigai is a japanese concept. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the blue zones.

Ryan Doolittle [00:36:55]:
Oh, yeah. Dan Buettner.

Jan Golden [00:36:56]:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:36:58]:
I’m on the retire sooner network, and it’s Wes Moss. He’s our hosts, our flagship show, retire sooner. He’s a huge Dan Buettner fan, so I know all about him.

Jan Golden [00:37:08]:
Yeah, exactly. I love. I love him, too. It’s one of my passions. Just the physical activity, the mental activity around that, the diet. You live in your body, all that kind of stuff. But one of the things the longevity, especially with the people in Japan, is this concept of ikigai, which is kind of the reason for being or the reason for waking up. But it’s finding this sweet spot in the.

Jan Golden [00:37:31]:
What you’re good at, what you love to do, what you can make money at, and what the world needs and so, like, if you have, if you’re good at something but you really don’t like doing it, then that doesn’t help you. Like, I could be good at graphic design, but I don’t like it, you know?

Ryan Doolittle [00:37:51]:
Right.

Jan Golden [00:37:52]:
Or I could be, a lot of people do this, and especially in the greeting card industry, they love graphic design. They’re good at it. But the world doesn’t need another birthday card with a balloon on it, you know? Yeah, yeah. Or they’re very scattered on the, they can’t figure out what the world needs. And for me, when I started, I didn’t really know how I was going to make money at it, but I could see that people were making money at it. So, I mean, I mean, enough, enough to kind of make a go of it because, again, the price point is low and you need to get into volume and things like that. So I was just, you know, kind of thinking through, like, can I, and that wasn’t like I didn’t stop or anything, but I was always constantly saying, I can’t just keep selling one card at a time. This is not, I’m not going to get anywhere.

Jan Golden [00:38:41]:
Right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:38:41]:
It’s a lot of work, not a.

Jan Golden [00:38:42]:
Lot of doing that.

Ryan Doolittle [00:38:43]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:38:44]:
Yeah, exactly. So once I kind of started getting those pieces in place, then the whole thing really fell into place. So, yeah, I think that’s a good thing for people, especially when they’re trying to figure out their retirement and, like, their, what’s next? And I talked through this with both my sister and my husband, especially my sister, because she wants to start some entrepreneurial venture. And she had an idea, for example, of, of making toffee because her friend’s mother’s neighbor has a great toffee recipe. And I’m like, well, do you like to eat toffee? You know, she doesn’t, she doesn’t like candy or sugar or anything, you know, and it’s like, okay, does the world really need another toffee? You know, I didn’t, I was being nice about it, but it was like, just because you can do something or you can understand all the pieces, parts or you want to manufacture a food or something like that, if that makes sense. It’s like you can really use that Eevee guide concept to sort of every now and then, once a year, every couple times a year, sit down and say, if something’s amiss, it’s like, is it because something’s out of balance here, basically.

Ryan Doolittle [00:39:55]:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, and that must be hard for you, Jan, because you’re good at everything, but not everything necessarily interests you, you know?

Jan Golden [00:40:03]:
Yeah, I can do just, I can, I can learn. My, my strength is that I can research and learn and figure out things, and it’s because of my web development background. And I adapted to tech early compared to other older adults in my generation because they were off doing other things. And if you didn’t happen to have tech exposure in your career, then. But I was building the tech.

Ryan Doolittle [00:40:27]:
So you were definitely aware of it. Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:40:30]:
Yeah. So anyway, I think that make, I’m very confident that I can figure things out, basically, which helps. Helps me appear to. But again, I don’t like doing all of it. I don’t. If it doesn’t feel important to me, then I get really bored with it right away, and I don’t want to do it. So it has to feel important, too.

Ryan Doolittle [00:40:50]:
So this show was originally going to be called the core pursuit finder. And maybe we could add, you do the graphic design of, like, a Sherlock Holmes looking for the core pursuits. But anyway, but so I do want to hear about some of your core pursuits, which are, you know, hobbies on steroids, things you really love doing. And if you want to just weave that into your perfect, typical day, that might work.

Jan Golden [00:41:11]:
Yeah, that sounds great. You know, along the way, also, it’s, we talked about the blue zones of mentioning that, and I just, especially when something like that is backed by research or, like, there’s these people that are living a long time and let me figure out what they’re doing kind of thing. So probably back in the time when my parents both passed away from, like, long term, like, chronic illness, I decided I wanted to be healthy. I was always pretty healthy, but. So I decided to intentionally be more active and move and walk and do some things like that because I could be pretty sedentary with my day job. But in the past five years, I started doing strength training and kind of cardio. So I do that three times a week. I finally started, like, lifting weights and stuff.

Jan Golden [00:41:55]:
So I’m in a class out at my local rec center.

Ryan Doolittle [00:41:59]:
Oh.

Jan Golden [00:41:59]:
So that’s been huge for me because I’ve improved my strength. It’s helped me sleep better. You know, everything else just kind of works better. I think my attention span is better. My focus I don’t have, I don’t, I don’t want to say it better, but I really am really focused and I can, I have a pretty good attention span and I sleep well. So I think those pieces are just because I’m moving more physically and then I think that helps you just be more mindful of what you’re putting into your body. You know, we’re basically in a plant based diet in this household, and my husband has been for a really long time, and so that helps as well. And so we eat, we cook our own food, and we eat pretty clean and pretty healthy most of the time.

Jan Golden [00:42:43]:
So that all helps with making everything else work as well. So, honestly, during the week, we just keep into our routines and spend a lot of time. You know, I. I basically get up. We’re at 05:30 a.m. class.

Ryan Doolittle [00:42:56]:
It’s called body pump.

Jan Golden [00:42:57]:
I start. Right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:42:58]:
What does that mean?

Jan Golden [00:42:59]:
It’s from Les Mills. Maybe some of your audience members will know that. I think they’re from scandinavian country. They started, but it’s a. It’s a regimen, a program that is all science based and research based, but it’s an hour long basic circuit training kind of thing. So you do squats and lunges and, and push ups and arms and overhead and, like, seven different areas of your body. So you basically get a full body workout in 1 hour. So I have a class in 1 hour.

Jan Golden [00:43:31]:
I do that three. Yeah, I do that three times a week. And that’s really changed my strength and everything. But if I was with you, I’d offer to arm wrestle you right now. I don’t know.

Ryan Doolittle [00:43:42]:
I don’t know if I’d accept the offer.

Jan Golden [00:43:46]:
I haven’t been to body part. Yeah. And I started that 05:30 a.m. time slot when I was doing multiple jobs. And it was a great way to get up in the morning and get going. And by, got home by like 630, quarter to seven, I could kind of start my day and routine. It just. I’m a morning person.

Jan Golden [00:44:02]:
That really works for me. So we have a dog, and I walk the dog.

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:05]:
The golden. You walk the golden.

Jan Golden [00:44:07]:
Yes, exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:08]:
Around golden?

Jan Golden [00:44:10]:
Yes, exactly. So that’s about a 30 minutes kind of get outside walk kind of thing. And then I usually will start my day, you know, around that time. But I’ll have my, especially my morning. I’m pretty protected by my mornings. Anything before I’m better in the morning. So that’s when I try to get most of my work done. And then afternoon I’ll stay for, like, shipping or fulfillment or meetings that I can zone out on.

Jan Golden [00:44:35]:
I don’t have to pay attention to.

Ryan Doolittle [00:44:37]:
Who are these meetings with? With the distributors or, I mean, with the.

Jan Golden [00:44:41]:
No, with. I’m involved with a couple of organizations and I’m on committees, and I do also do some training. I take training. I keep up on industry trends and things like that, so that type of thing. I’m a pretty big lifelong learner as well, so I want to always be keeping up with industries and trends and things like that. So.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:02]:
A student of life.

Jan Golden [00:45:04]:
Yes, but I don’t work evenings and I don’t work weekends. I do have three grandchildren that live nearby.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:10]:
Oh, you do?

Jan Golden [00:45:11]:
Yeah. And so I, I’m very involved with their lives as well. In fact, on Thursdays, I watch them. I have since they were born, so that’s even when I was working all through those years. So that’s been great. Wow. Ten, 810. Eight.

Jan Golden [00:45:27]:
And my daughter just had another one, so I have a one year old who I don’t, it’s not mine, but you know what I mean.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:33]:
Right, right.

Jan Golden [00:45:34]:
I’m like, you’re like, we’re gonna have another baby.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:36]:
I’m like, yes, but that means when you’re, when your daughter was 30, you weren’t saying, when are you gonna get pregnant?

Jan Golden [00:45:43]:
She.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:44]:
You just let her do it.

Jan Golden [00:45:45]:
Exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:45]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:45:46]:
Yeah. She was just doing it.

Ryan Doolittle [00:45:48]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:45:48]:
So, of course, being a grandparent, not everybody has that opportunity, but that’s a big joy. And it’s, it’s great to be a part of their lives, you know, so just enough that they know me and, but not enough that I’m, like, feeling the burden of it all. So my daughter works part time on that day, too, so. But I get a consistent chunk of time with them one on one, which is awesome.

Ryan Doolittle [00:46:11]:
Isn’t that? Yeah. So you have one daughter or how many adult children do you have?

Jan Golden [00:46:17]:
I have a son and a daughter.

Ryan Doolittle [00:46:19]:
And the daughter lives nearby. Where does the son live?

Jan Golden [00:46:22]:
He lives in Ventura, California.

Ryan Doolittle [00:46:23]:
Oh, yeah, that’s near me. Because we surveyed a lot of retirees to see where their children lived, and we found, at least in our group, the happiest retirees. They lived near at least half of their adult children. So it seems like you hit that mark.

Jan Golden [00:46:42]:
Yeah. And that’s a great point because I kind of hesitate to move away. We kind of live where we are, and then we feel like we can go travel and we have a place. We have a mountain home up in grand county, which is about 2 hours away on the lake. So we get to go up and every weekend and get away up there. So that gives us our kind of our mountain fix.

Ryan Doolittle [00:47:07]:
I’ve also seen some data that the happiest folks live near water. So you’re hitting all these marks, I.

Jan Golden [00:47:15]:
Grew up in Minnesota, so 10,000 lakes, there was a lot of water, so. Yeah, right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:47:21]:
Which is why the Los Angeles Lakers are called the lakers, because they were in, in Minnesota. Right. And then.

Jan Golden [00:47:26]:
Oh, nice. That’s right.

Ryan Doolittle [00:47:28]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:47:29]:
Yeah, exactly.

Ryan Doolittle [00:47:31]:
So then you, you’ve got the kids, you’ve got the water. Everything else is copacetic, it seems like.

Jan Golden [00:47:38]:
Yeah. And then we do, you know, we just, we just got into mountain biking. I used to mountain bike when I was little. Yeah, little. And we just, so we like to, we’re not afraid to pick up new hobbies as well. My husband did his first spread triathlon at age 68, so.

Ryan Doolittle [00:47:58]:
Oh, my gosh.

Jan Golden [00:48:00]:
He’s gotten into swimming, so we’re pretty active. We like to hike, and we also play pickleball like everybody else, which we love to do. And I just, I’m starting to get more into golf.

Ryan Doolittle [00:48:12]:
Oh, you are?

Jan Golden [00:48:13]:
So. Yeah, so we, we definitely have, we save time for hobbies and other interests like that, too, because it’s social and you get out, you’re active.

Ryan Doolittle [00:48:24]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:48:24]:
And so we definitely love to do that. So I would say my kind of, my passion killers are those things, but it’s all around. I’m pretty careful about not doing things that are going to drain my energy and make me sedentary. I kind of, my hobbies and interests are all around, like, you know, trying to keep moving and trying to keep connected with people. Yeah. I just want to feel, you know, good. Well, especially go back to my parents and, you know, my mom had a stroke and eight years prior to her death, and my dad had pulmonary fibrosis from being a drywaller inhaling sheet rock us his whole life. So they both had chronic illness and, and kind of were not, he didn’t, weren’t real healthy the last ten years of their lives, so.

Jan Golden [00:49:07]:
So I just also want to take care of my body and, you know, that’s why the goozones piece is so appealing to me, because, you know, I don’t mind living a long life as long as I’m healthy and mentally there and all that, you know. So I just kind of, I think what you do now at this age, in your fifties and sixties, really dictates, you know, the rest of your life and how that’s going to go, so.

Ryan Doolittle [00:49:28]:
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, chant, is there anything else you’d want to give as some parting advice for other people looking to be as happy and healthy as you are?

Jan Golden [00:49:38]:
It’s all an illusion. No, I’m just kidding. No, I do have a phrase that really makes a difference, especially as you get older, just to remember that it’s never, you’re never too old, you know, and it’s not too late. So for people who think, oh, that’s passed me by, and I can’t do that thing, you might do it a little differently that you, then you would have when you’re younger.

Ryan Doolittle [00:50:02]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:50:03]:
But you really can do, you can find examples of people doing just about anything.

Ryan Doolittle [00:50:08]:
Yeah.

Jan Golden [00:50:09]:
Well, into their eighties and even into their nineties. So, you know, they’re, you’re never too old, not too late.

Ryan Doolittle [00:50:15]:
So if you do some body pump and some rewirement, you can be as happy as Jan golden. Well, Jan, thanks so much for joining us on the happiest retiree podcast.

Jan Golden [00:50:29]:
Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for your time. Ryan.