#226 – Thriving Beyond 50 With Will Harlow

Wes Moss [00:00:45]:
Avoid surgery, which I’d love to avoid surgery, stay on pain pills. When did you publish that? Because it’s still number one on Amazon.

Will Harlow [00:00:54]:
Yeah. So that was the first edition of thriving beyond 50, and I published that in 2020. So we launched that in May. Right during one of the lockdowns, actually. So it was kind of good timing to have it ready for that. And to be honest with you, when I launched that book, I released it basically just as a tool to help me grow my physio business, my physical practice, because I’m a practicing physical therapist, and I was asked lots and lots of questions by my clients over and over again about various things. And I thought, you know what? It’d be great to put this on paper and have it as a book that I can give to my patients and maybe they can hand over to other people who might eventually come and work with me. So that was the idea.

Will Harlow [00:01:42]:
And then a couple of years later, when the YouTube channel really took off.

Wes Moss [00:01:47]:
So in, I think after this podcast, we hope you’re going to be over a million subscribers because you’re right there.

Will Harlow [00:01:54]:
We’re very close. Very close. Hopefully that puts you over the top. I would love it, too. Thank you so much. I’ll send you a copy of the book regardless, but I’ll double sign it if it does.

Wes Moss [00:02:08]:
All right. So you put kind of your philosophy into the book, and then that’s kind of taken off, and that’s how you’ve gotten. Call it global recognition to have that many subscribers. My first question, and maybe it’s because I don’t know of this term as much here in the United States, or this is just a UK versus us thing, but because, again, you’re joining us live from the United Kingdom, is physio. Is that more of a UK term? Where is here? Would we call that physical therapy? And you guys call it physio?

Will Harlow [00:02:42]:
That’s exactly right, where there’s no difference whatsoever. It’s just a different term. So physiotherapists are the equivalent to your physical therapists, and there are lots of different types of physiotherapists and physical therapists. You have some that work in hospitals and on respiratory wards, and some that help people overcome fractures and things. But my type of physiotherapy, or physical therapy, as you guys would call it, is specializing in helping people over 50 to improve three things. Thing number one is their mobility. And when we talk about mobility, I’m talking about both the context of how well each individual joint in your body moves, as well as how you move as a whole. So how well you climb stairs, how well you get, about how well you can get in and out of a car.

Will Harlow [00:03:32]:
That’s all mobility, as well as how well your knee bends, for instance. The second thing I help people with is their independence. So independence is a big catch all term, and that will include how strong you are, how confident you are, again, how well you can move, how well you can balance, how confident you are on your feet, and how little you fear falls, because that’s a big thing that affects people’s independence. And really, it’s a catch all term for how well you can do life without needing to rely on other people. And then the third thing I help people with, and this is probably what most people know about physio, is painful problems. So aches, pains and injuries, I help people to overcome those as well. And that includes arthritis, which I’m sure we’ll cover as well later in the podcast.

Wes Moss [00:04:21]:
So just thinking about the demographics of the United States and the UK, I guess, are not overly dissimilar because you guys have your baby boom. Similar. Do you talk about a similar baby boom in the UK as we do here in the United States? I would say it’s a global baby boom.

Will Harlow [00:04:39]:
Yeah, it’s almost exactly the same.

Wes Moss [00:04:41]:
Okay, so then you’ve got this massive population, and I’m thinking about a relatively young guy like you says, I’m going to go into the 50 plus space. Is that just because it was? How did you end up helping the 50 plus population?

Will Harlow [00:04:57]:
Well, I’m glad you’ve asked me, Wes, because I’m sure you’ve got many listeners or watchers at home thinking this guy looks about 15. What does he know about people over 50? And I’m used to kind of covering this topic on my YouTube channel, because obviously we have a big audience there. And the first thing people are going to look at is say, well, this guy is young. How is he going to be, will?

Wes Moss [00:05:17]:
Guy looks like he’s on the Olympic rugby team, right? It’s like, wait a minute. By the way, in your bio, you did say, so were you a professional athlete or was that just, is that another category you studied?

Will Harlow [00:05:31]:
No, I worked in professional sport. I was never very good at sport. I was okay. I was okay. I played for the university in football, or soccer, as you guys call it, but I was never good enough to be pro. But I mean, the way I got into over fifties was kind of a roundabout way, and it was not what I intended to do when I was studying at university to be a physio. So like many young guys who study physio and have a background in sports, I thought that all I wanted to do was work in professional sport and help athletes get back onto the, onto the field.

Wes Moss [00:06:08]:
You almost said pitch. You almost said pitch.

Will Harlow [00:06:11]:
I know I did indeed. Yeah. You’ll probably catch me a few times with these english isms. You have to correct me for your audience. So I spent all of my time studying sports and how we can help athletes. And when I left university as a qualified physio, the first thing I did was look for a job in professional sport, and I got a really lucky break. I got a super opportunity to work at a professional soccer club. And not only was it a great opportunity to work as a physio at a professional soccer club, it was also the club that I’d supported as a child.

Will Harlow [00:06:48]:
So I’d been to all of the games as a child, watched these players on the pitch, grown up, idolizing them, and I was offered a job to go and work there. So dream come true, right.

Wes Moss [00:07:00]:
Okay, sounds cool. Can you tell us the team? Is it Manchester United?

Will Harlow [00:07:05]:
It’s not Manchester United. They’re much smaller. It’s Portsmouth Football Club. So right on the south coast.

Wes Moss [00:07:11]:
Got it.

Will Harlow [00:07:11]:
We used to be somebodies and now we’re kind of nobodies, but we’re coming back. So we’re in the second division of, of the English Football league, if you like, at the moment, used to be Premier League.

Wes Moss [00:07:24]:
So it’s your dream, it’s your dream team. You’re a fan, you get a job there. It’s my dream team.

Will Harlow [00:07:29]:
That’s right. So I took the job and within about two or three months, I realized that I was a terrible fit for that kind of work. Just wasn’t me at all. The environment I found quite tricky. It’s very, it’s almost kind of heartless professional sport. There’s one of the sayings they used to say in professional football is, you’ve got no friends in professional football, because you can have someone who’s very friendly and then there can be an instant where you get thrown under the bus for something and it’s like, it’s nothing personal, it’s just the way it is. And I guess I would also realize that I kind of liked being a bit more independent with regards to my own time. And when you’re working in professional sport, you are on call 24 7365 days.

Will Harlow [00:08:18]:
I remember getting a call in my first year at 11:00 p.m. on New Year’s Eve saying, we’ve got a player who’s just come down with an injury, I need you in tomorrow at seven in the morning, New Year’s Day. I was like, great. I mean, it was a combination of things, but I did a couple of seasons there and then I thought, do you know what? I’ve had a good time and it’s been okay, but this isn’t what I want to do for the rest of my career. So I left and almost had like a quarter life crisis. I didn’t know what to do next. So most physios in the UK work in the National Health Service, which is our big healthcare system, which is pretty well known around the world, because it’s free at the point of care. So it’s a fantastic british thing that we’ve got.

Will Harlow [00:09:06]:
And there’s always jobs in the NHS for physios because they’re always trying to find more, more stuff. So I went in there thinking it was going to be a temporary thing, just while I figured out what I wanted to do. And most of the patients in the NHS were over 50, the ones I was seeing, and I started to see these people and I was helping them with their mobility and their pain and their independence and getting them strong. And a couple of months in, I sort of looked back at the last week I’d had and thought, you know what? I’m having the most fun I’ve had in years.

Wes Moss [00:09:40]:
Who would have known helping baby boomers with their strength and pain would be cooler than hanging out with the pro footballers? But it makes sense.

Will Harlow [00:09:47]:
Maybe it’s just me, but it made sense to me. And I think there’s something to do with the job satisfaction difference there as well. The job satisfaction you can get from getting Johnny, aged 22, back out onto the football pitch is really different to helping Barbara, aged 78, go from coming in in a wheelchair to walking again. Like, that’s just a whole different ballgame for me. And, you know, time and time again, you get these great results with people and you think, you know what? This is what it’s all about. So that kind of ignited my passion, but at the same time, I was looking at the NHS and I don’t know if you guys know that much about it, but it’s free at the point of care, which is amazing. And if I was to keel over right now, within 30 minutes, there’d be world class help here. I’d be rushed to a hospital and you’d see some of the best surgeons in the world like that.

Will Harlow [00:10:44]:
So for emergencies, it’s amazing. But for these kind of low level chronic conditions, like arthritis and problems with mobility, it struggles at times the way NHS does.

Wes Moss [00:10:58]:
So the natural health system doesn’t quite. It’s not really geared towards that. Okay. By the way, I was thinking in my head, as we’re talking about football, I was thinking that we know that the Americans kind of know now a little bit more about the cut throatedness of english football ever since Ted Lasso.

Will Harlow [00:11:17]:
Yes.

Wes Moss [00:11:18]:
I don’t know. Do you guys have that show over there?

Will Harlow [00:11:21]:
Yeah, I’ve seen it a couple of times. It’s fantastic. Really accurate, actually.

Wes Moss [00:11:25]:
Is it really? So we know that no one’s your friend in pro football just because of Ted Lasso. So thank you to that show for that. Okay, so we go back to. So you’re helping people and then you realize NHS isn’t necessarily great at this. So is that when you decided to go start your own physio?

Will Harlow [00:11:42]:
That’s right. So the constraints that I was seeing people under, you know, we were told you could only see people a maximum of three or four times, and then you had to pass them on so you could get a new patient in and, you know, the appointments 20 minutes long, it’s not enough to do the things I wanted to do with these people. So I thought, if I really want to have the impact that I know I can, I’ve got to come out of this system and do my own thing, which is when I set up my own practice.

Wes Moss [00:12:07]:
So there’s a couple of things I wanted to continue kind of early on here, is that I wanted to ask you just about life expectancy in general and what that looks like. I know we’re living longer, but are we really, are we healthier in general as a population uk us? Kind of similar. And then the other thought is, I’ve watched many of your YouTube videos, I wanted to at least touch on some of the signs that you may not be strong. For instance, the one leg balance, if you’ve got pain or if you’ve got grip. So maybe let’s just start with your take on longevity versus health span.

Will Harlow [00:12:53]:
As you quite rightly said, wes, lifespan. So how long you live has been increasing, and it’s been increasing generally throughout the whole world. But health span, which is how healthy you are within those years, has not necessarily been keeping pace. So we’ve got more people who live over the age of 80 than we ever have done. But for many of those people, the last 1015 years of their life are not of what I would call high quality. And by high quality, I mean independent, mobile, not fearful, able to do the things they want to do. And we’ve become very good at keeping people alive. But keeping people well is still something we’re trying to figure out kind of as a whole medical field, if you like.

Will Harlow [00:13:43]:
So one of my goals, really, with my book and my YouTube channel and everything I do is to try and improve people’s health span. And I didn’t coin the term health span. I think the first time I heard it was used by doctor Peter Attia, who you might have heard of before, he’s a doctor from your side of the pond. But it just made so much sense in my mind as something that we should be prioritizing. Because in my mind, if you’re living an extra ten years, but most of those years are you’re miserable, you’re in pain and you’re not independent, then really what’s the point? Have we achieved anything successful? I would argue possibly not.

Wes Moss [00:14:20]:
Yeah. So for our listeners, if you’re starting to think, well, maybe my health span isn’t great, what are some of those signs that I’ve heard you talk about that are easy ways to gauge, hey, how am I doing? And maybe I should start focusing on this more and end up with a physio or physical therapist and really starting to take your three main focuses, mobility, independence and pain management. What are some of the signs that your health span might not be great physically?

Will Harlow [00:14:53]:
There are some specific signs we can look at, but I think the best general sign for your listeners to think about is, can I do everything that I would like to do? Within reason. So if your listeners like walking and they’re used to walking 5 miles on a Saturday with their partner, and then suddenly it’s like that five mile walk is too much now I can’t do it anymore, then I would say that’s a big sign that there’s work to be done. Also, how confident you feel while you’re doing your tasks of daily life. So many of the people who come to see me, they don’t necessarily come in because they’ve got a painful problem. They come in because they said, you know what? I’m going up and down the stairs at home, and I’m gripping hold of that banister for dear life because I’m scared I might fall or I’m starting to rely on my walking stick just to go out to the bottom of the garden. And I used to be confident, but now I’m so worried about losing my balance that I feel I have to use it. So those things can be a sign that certain physical attributes are slipping, and those things can often be worked on in terms of kind of tactical things people can look at. There’s some really good data to suggest that there’s a correlation between the strength of your grip and both your health span and your longevity as well.

Will Harlow [00:16:12]:
Grip is actually a predictor of how long you’re going to live and how healthy you are as you live that life. And the reason for that is not because grip is directly linked to better health, but because it’s a good proxy for overall strength. It’s like if I’m very, very strong in my arms, I’m unlikely to have a weak grip. At the same time, those two things don’t really go together.

Wes Moss [00:16:36]:
So you can’t work on the hand bar and all of a sudden increase your longevity. It’s really, isn’t it? Yeah, that would be great, but. Okay, so grip balance, how much of this, let’s just say you determine, gosh, I’m not as mobile, pain free, confident in my mobility as I used to be. I need to go figure. I need to do something about it. I need to go see a physical therapy here in the United States or a physio in the United Kingdom. The question is how much of your work and or those overarching problems of kind of slight physical decline when it doesn’t have to be physical decline, is exercise and movement versus diet. And if I would say those are the two, are those really the two big pieces that we all have to be really considerate of? And do you focus on the physical side only, or do you also, what is your belief on the diet side?

Will Harlow [00:17:37]:
I think they’re both very, very important. I would say that from the things we’ve discussed, the exercise side is arguably more important than the diet side. There’s a lot of attention paid in the media to eat this, not that. And this kind of food is bad for you. This kind of food is good for you. Now, the human body is incredibly clever at using different types of food to power it, to fuel it. Okay? So as long as we have the kind of fundamental basics down, like you’re getting enough protein and your calorie balance is okay, then I think that we can really, in most cases, check off the diet part from these physical things that we’re talking about, that the rest of it comes down to exercise. And there is just so much data to suggest that we’re not moving enough.

Will Harlow [00:18:30]:
And one of the reasons we have such a decline in our health span is because there’s an epidemic of people under exercising. So that’s one of the things I want to bring to the people who watch my staff, is that the importance of exercise, not just for these physical things, but also for how you feel and also for your energy levels and also for, you know, the trajectory of your health over many years.

Wes Moss [00:18:57]:
Yeah. So that is kind of an interesting perspective because it’s almost maybe easier for the media. What is more consumable, it’s almost easier to talk about diet because it can very much be, this is bad and this is good, or you should avoid this and you should do more of this. And there’s a lot of visual examples around that, and I think it’s easier to implement on the consumer side. Well, wait a minute, I can just eat this, I’ll shop differently. It’s a little harder to articulate the thought around movement and exercise because it’s either super broad, okay, walk more, get up and get 10,000 steps, or you should be working out or going to the gym or doing something active more, as opposed to, which is just a little harder, I think, for the media authors, anyone, to articulate and then consume on the consumer side. So I think that you’re kind of trying to overcome what is a slightly harder message to get to people. Plus, it’s a lot more fun to eat than it is to work out.

Will Harlow [00:20:06]:
That’s true. It’s certainly a hard sell. But I think people overestimate how much exercise they have to do to see a positive change. People think often I have to be doing my 10,000 steps per day to, to be good in inverted commas, but that’s just not the case. I mean, if you want to talk about the 10,000 steps example, it was just a random number plucked out of the air by a japanese researcher in the 1960s. Who was trying to get the nation moving a bit better, it doesn’t really have much science behind it. So as long as you’re trying to just slowly increase your walking or maintain what you’re doing, if you’re already doing a great level, then that for me is a big tick. It doesn’t have to be any specific number of steps.

Will Harlow [00:20:46]:
Now, when it comes to the other types of exercise, research is showing that basically a tiny bit of exercise each week is going to have really noticeable and important for your health gains week on week on week. And by small amounts, what I mean really is 20 minutes of exercise two to three times per week is plenty to see and feel a big change in your health.

Wes Moss [00:21:14]:
If you’ve ever done a Jane Fonda workout, or if you remember as a kid rocky running the steps, and if Michael Keaton is still mister mom to you, then guess what? It’s officially time to do some retirement planning. It’s Wes Moss from money matters. Weren’t those the good old days? Well, with a little bit of retirement planning, there are plenty of good days ahead of schedule. An appointment with our team today@yourwealth.com. dot that’s your, yourwealth.com dot. I think the other thing that I like about your work is that you try to make it possible or accessible, right? If somebody comes out and says, you should be getting 10,000 steps every day and you should be moving, going to work, working out x amount of times a week, sometimes our population or any population just says, man, I don’t know if I’m ever going to be able to do that. So you kind of quit before you even get started. It’s a little bit like financial planning.

Wes Moss [00:22:13]:
I think if the financial planning rules are unachievable and they’re so far out of bounds for a lot of people, then people throw their hands up in the air and they say, I give up. I’m not going to. I can’t save $2,000 a month at this point. Or if I can only use 2% of my net worth in the future, what’s the point of saving? The accessibility of how people can reengage in this is really important. So give us a couple of these. So one, a little. So 20 minutes, two to three times a week. Now that seems super achievable.

Wes Moss [00:22:48]:
And is it because you have the correlation that if you can, that you are doing something two to three times a week for a little bit, you’re automatically a little healthier? Or can it really pull you out of a ruthen and start to get you in a healthier place. Will?

Will Harlow [00:23:03]:
Yeah, definitely the latter. It can certainly improve your health. It’s not just for people who are already exercising. And actually, the nice thing about exercise, and this is something that probably only applies to exercise and not to very much else in life, and that’s that the worse you are when you start, or the lower the level that you are when you start, the bigger the improvements you’re going to see.

Wes Moss [00:23:29]:
That’s a cool way to think about it.

Will Harlow [00:23:32]:
There’s a saying in the fitness industry called newbie gains, and it’s the incredible amount of improvement you see in the first six months of going to the gym. And everyone’s jealous because the guy who just goes in there, within six months time, he’s going to have transformed his body. But someone who’s been going in for 15 years already, they do six months of work, you’re barely going to see a difference. There’s kind of like diminishing returns, but everyone’s jealous of the new guy when it comes to exercise because the changes are so rapid. So I think it feels unpleasant when you get started because it’s not a habit and it’s something that you’re pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, which is another big hurdle for people, and I totally understand that. But if you can just get through that first one to two weeks and kind of make it a little bit more of a, of a routine, the improvements follow really quickly afterwards. And when I was talking about the two to 320 minutes sessions, the evidence for that is with resistance training, it doesn’t have to be gym work, because you can do resistance training just with stuff around your home. But that amount of work, 20 minutes, two to three times a week, is enough to start to see muscle being put onto your body, possibly body fat loss at the same time, and a noticeable improvement in your strength and your mobility and your confidence as well.

Wes Moss [00:24:55]:
So when you’re saying two to three times a week, are you talking, you’re talking about weights or, and, or resistance versus walking? What’s which if you had to choose? Obviously we want to do both. But is it really more about the strength training? A little bit of strength training goes a long way. Are you talking about just if you’re riding a bicycle three times a week for 30 minutes, which one is the one we should choose?

Will Harlow [00:25:18]:
Depends what your goals are. I mean, I think strength training is one of the best things you can do for your health, because it seems to improve almost every health marker. If you’re not interested in building or maintaining muscle mass, and you want to improve the health of your heart and your lungs. You’re probably better off on the bike or walking. Those kind of cardiovascular exercise types seem to be better for improving the health of our circulatory system. So that might be what you would prefer to do. But if you want to improve your independence, your balance and your confidence, I think resistance training for me is the number one, as you say and will any age here.

Wes Moss [00:25:57]:
So if somebody who’s 65 listening, you would say yes to resistance and strength training just as much as you would.

Will Harlow [00:26:04]:
If somebody who’s 35, there’s a dead cutoff at 65. No one over 65 should do it. I’m kidding. There’s no cut off whatsoever. Everyone should find a way to, or could find a way to do it and would see huge improvements. There was a study I read last week which compared the effects of resistance training between people who were between 65 and 75 and people who were over the age of 85. Okay, we’ve got some really good data to show that people who are in their sixties and seventies get stronger and build muscle with resistance training. So as predicted in the study, those people built muscle and got stronger.

Will Harlow [00:26:46]:
But the interesting thing here is the 85 year old group built almost the same amount of muscle and strength as the 65 to 75 year old group. Wow. Well, I was surprised as well, but there was no statistical significant difference between the two groups, which is amazing.

Wes Moss [00:27:03]:
It is amazing. You would, I think, if I were 85. You really don’t think that you would be building the same amount of muscle as somebody 20 years younger? That is interesting. Wow.

Will Harlow [00:27:14]:
I think it can be more difficult to build muscle with age. Obviously we get changes in our hormones and the soft tissue qualities, not as good, but also people who are 85 year old and older tend to start probably from a lower starting point. And starting a resistance training routine at that age is like a big shock for the body. The body doesn’t know what to do. So what it does to compensate for that shock is lays down muscle, and as a result, you get stronger. So that’s why I think the mechanisms still work really well for that older population. But I see similar things to that in the clinic as well. We get people in their eighties, even their nineties, who come in pretty weak, but you give them an exercise program, just 1015 minutes per day of work.

Will Harlow [00:28:01]:
They do it every day. They come back to you in a few weeks time and there’s a noticeable change. So I don’t think this stuff is out of reach for anyone of any age. It’s just about committing to it.

Wes Moss [00:28:12]:
And consistency, it sounds like it’s paramount, too. So, I mean, doing it once a week doesn’t cut it, but if you’re doing it three times or four times a week, that’s when you really start to see improvement.

Will Harlow [00:28:25]:
Yeah. So frequency is really important. And by frequency, what we mean is how often you do something in a given timeframe. And the research shows, for improving strength and improving muscle mass, you would be better off working a muscle for 20 minutes three times a week than you would working it for an hour once a week for most people. So it seems to be that little and often is more effective than lots all in one go.

Wes Moss [00:29:02]:
Yeah, I think that’s what maybe, and this will bleed into the injury side of this. Now, sometimes I find myself as the weekend warrior, where if I’m not in a good workout routine and I’m not doing anything all weekend, then I remember myself as in shape, and I might play pickleball for two straight hours and go on a bike ride. And next thing I know, at the end of the day, I’m super sore because I haven’t been doing it consistently, but then I’ll load it all up in just the weekend. We all know that’s the best way. Sounds like the worst way to do it. Okay, so, frequency, what kind of injuries do you see? And I hope what our listeners will get out of today is that we want to get moving before we have an injury or before we have pain. But the reality is we got a lot of people that do have aches and they have pains, and you’ve got a lot to say around how to treat that. But first, let’s start with what is the common injury? What do you see most often and what happens to people 50 plus that sidelines them and makes it so it’s tough to, to be doing workouts.

Will Harlow [00:30:09]:
Yeah. So the quality of your connective tissues and your soft tissues in your body, unfortunately, does tend to decline with age. Part of it’s out of our control. It’s just part of the aging process, but part of it we can control. So with exercise, we can slow down those changes and possibly reverse them. So that’s the first thing to say. Arthritis is more common with age. And arthritis is a natural process whereby the joints in the body lose cartilage and the bone becomes thickened.

Will Harlow [00:30:41]:
Sometimes you can get little bony outgrowths. And the thing about arthritis wears that most people don’t know is that most of the time we have arthritis and we don’t even know, because it doesn’t cause us any pain, it doesn’t cause us any symptoms. It just lives in our body quite happily. But for a small proportion of people who have it, either particularly badly in one of their joints, or they’re just prone to getting symptoms from it, they can develop symptoms, and those symptoms can range from being very, very mild to being incredibly severe. Now, arthritis is an interesting one, and it’s something I really do specialize in, just because so many of my patients have it. And there’s a huge amount of evidence to show that a lot of that is also in our control. So the actual ratio of how much of it’s down to genetics and how much of it’s down to lifestyle, we think is about 50 50. That’s what the systematic reviews tend to come out at when they’re looking at the data.

Will Harlow [00:31:41]:
So 50% is down to your genetics. Not much you can do about that. But the other 50% is down to how you move, how well you maintain your muscles and your joints, how strong you are, and basically just how healthy you are as a whole as well, that has a big impact. So arthritis is a big one. We see. We also see breakdowns of tissues like tendons. They’re more likely to develop tendinopathies, we call them, which is, I don’t know if you’ve heard of someone with a rotator cuff tendon problem or like an Achilles tendon problem. They become quite common with age as well, and they can stop.

Wes Moss [00:32:15]:
Hey, I’ve got one of those right now. I’ve got. My right shoulder is knocked.

Will Harlow [00:32:19]:
Oh, really?

Wes Moss [00:32:20]:
Yeah, yeah.

Will Harlow [00:32:21]:
Are you getting help for it?

Wes Moss [00:32:23]:
You know, I’ve got a couple friends that are orthopedic surgeons, and one of them actually does shoulders. And I just the other day, he said, just don’t get surgery as long as you can. And he. And he said, you know, go and do all these resistance training things with. Which I’ve done before in the past because I’ve had a bunch of shoulder injuries from ice hockey and lacrosse, and then I had a weakened shoulder, and I think I’ve got. Well, I know I’ve got kind of a labrum issue and or rotator cuff, but my advice so far has been just strengthen it and do physio pt here and do that for as long as I can and hopefully not have to get surgery anytime too soon. Cause I’m not over 50 just yet. Will get in there.

Will Harlow [00:33:08]:
I didn’t think you were wiz but it sounds like great advice.

Wes Moss [00:33:11]:
Well, let’s go back to arthritis for just a second. Are you can, if you’ve got a couple arthritic joints and they’re, and they’re painful, is that able to get better through physio, or is that just an advil commercial?

Will Harlow [00:33:25]:
So with arthritis, the thing people don’t often understand is that even though you can’t improve the actual state of the arthritis in the joint, you can almost always, to some degree, improve the symptoms if you do the right thing. So many people feel pain and stiffness as a result of arthritis. They’ll come and have an eight week course of treatment with me here, for instance. And at the end of the eight weeks, their x ray of their knee is going to look exactly the same, but their pain and their stiffness is totally different. And that’s because we’ve got the joint moving better, we’ve got the muscles around it working better, and we’ve got them moving better as well. So arthritis is not necessarily a life sentence. It can be helped. And a lot of that comes down to exercise, how you move, some very, very simple tweaks that you can make to the things you do every day that can really impact it.

Wes Moss [00:34:22]:
What about that? Beyond working out 20 minutes, 30 minutes a couple of times a week, which that and the frequency makes total sense. What about other lifestyle shifts that do help?

Will Harlow [00:34:35]:
So movement is super important. And anyone who has an arthritic joint, I encourage them to try and move it just unloaded, just without any significant strain on it, just through a full, arrange as possible as you can, as often as you can. Because the beautiful thing about movement is that it encourages the production of something called synovial fluid. And synovial fluid is like the body’s natural lubricant. It lives inside all of our joints, in our body. And there’s some evidence to show that with arthritis, the quality of the synovial fluid can decrease. So it’s like having, I don’t know if you guys have got wd 40 over there in the US, of course.

Wes Moss [00:35:15]:
Yes, yes.

Will Harlow [00:35:17]:
It’s like having less wd 40 in your joints. Okay. But movement helps to generate more of it. So we’re almost like oiling the joints by moving. So let’s say someone’s got an arthritic knee, for instance, and they’re on a night watching some television. I would say to them, while you’re watching the tv, just slide your heel out along the floor and then bring it back in nice and gently and do it really slowly, you know, ten times an hour, just to kind of work that knee through a full range of motion. And they feel like they’re not really doing very much at the time, but what they’re doing is generating more of that synovial fluid and keeping the joint loose and mobile. So that’s one of the big things.

Will Harlow [00:35:58]:
Walking is super, super important for your weight bearing joints. That’s been shown time and time again. And there’s a real myth that exercise and using your joints wears them out. That is a lie. That is not true. And I’ll explain why that’s become a myth in just a moment. But what exercise does, or general movement is keeps the muscles nice and strong. It keeps your joints mobile again, it encourages the reproduction of that synovial fluid, and it actually also encourages the production of new cartilage inside your joint.

Will Harlow [00:36:35]:
So your joint, when you develop arthritis, it’s not just the cartilage necessarily being rubbed away. That’s not really how arthritis works. It’s more complex than that. You have cells in your joints that are all the time trying to generate new cartilage, and you have other cells that are trying to take away old cartilage. Now, if we’re not very active, the cells that take away the cartilage are upregulated, so they’re more active. And the cells that lay down new cartilage are down regulated. So we end up with a net loss, okay? It’s like if someone is spending more than they earn, you end up with a net loss of money over time. When we’re active, it’s like trying to bring the ratio back into balance again.

Will Harlow [00:37:21]:
Okay? So the more active we are, we down regulate the cells that take away the old cartilage, and we up regulate the cells that lay down the new cartilage. So you can actually help your body by walking more, by moving, by not sitting for too long. And coming back to what I said about the myth that exercise wears down your cartilage, the reason that is believed is because certain sports and more aggressive activities can impact your joints, and they can lead to a higher risk of arthritis.

Wes Moss [00:37:54]:
So, for example, in the like, what, running? Basically, if you’re a runner and you’re going out for five mile runs or.

Will Harlow [00:38:01]:
No, no. So, running has never been shown to wear down the joints. And the difference between running and the sports I’m talking about is running is a predictable, repeated activity, whereas sports like rugby and football, you’re twisting, you’re turning, people are clattering into you from the side you’re getting impact in your knee. So things like that aren’t bad, but they have. If you play at a high level and you play very regularly, you know, like I training every day and playing on weekends, there is a correlation between a higher risk later in life with some arthritis, but that’s never been shown with straightforward running. And the reason is because there isn’t as much stress on the joints from just running in a straight line as there is from getting hit from the side or twisting or kicking a ball.

Wes Moss [00:38:46]:
Wow. So that’s a myth. I’ve for a long time thought running was, quote, bad for you. No, after age 50. But it’s not.

Will Harlow [00:38:55]:
No, it’s nothing.

Wes Moss [00:38:57]:
Not that I love running, but they kind of give. Now I have no excuse. I was like, ah, it’s not good for me at this. So now I can go back.

Will Harlow [00:39:05]:
Yeah. I think that this is something that was really controversial for a very long time. But the most recent data, and that’s why I always try and bring to the people that listen to me and watch me, is the most recent stuff. And the most recent data we have is that low to moderate intensity running. So people who run, you know, three times a week, there is no increased risk of arthritis in the weight bearing joints, as far as we can tell, in high volume running. So, like professional runners, the data is inconclusive. So there isn’t a kind of defined yes or no risk with that one yet, but there’s no increased risk from recreational running that we know of.

Wes Moss [00:39:50]:
What’s the most dangerous movement for people over 50, or is there such a thing?

Will Harlow [00:39:57]:
So no movement in and of itself is dangerous. It’s all taken in context of the individual. And I think the thing that could make a movement dangerous is if you’ve never been exposed to it before and you try and do it too quickly without proper setup. So let’s say, for example, you put 400 kilos on a bar or 800 pounds, and you said, we’ll go and pick that up. Now, I’ve never lifted that kind of weight before, so for me to try and do that, that could potentially be a dangerous movement. But for sure, sure, you know, a power lifter who does that all the time, no problem. Now, obviously, that’s the caveat, but in terms of movements that are correlated with the higher risk of injury, there is one that’s quite consistently correlated with more injuries for people over 50. And it can lead to not just more accidents, but it can lead to quite severe accidents as well.

Will Harlow [00:40:57]:
And that movement is stepping down from a height. So that’s not a dangerous movement, as I said, but it’s a situation where you’re asking your muscles to contract in a way called an eccentric contraction. And that is a contraction where they’re getting longer at the same time as contracting. Now, eccentric contractions are more difficult for us, and they become more difficult for us as we get older. So when I’m talking about the danger of stepping down from a curb, the typical scenario is, let’s say a lady in her eighties, she’s stepping off a bus. It’s slightly higher than she anticipated. She can’t quite control the step down. She loses control over the last inch.

Will Harlow [00:41:48]:
She comes down with the thud, and then that might lead to a fall. Okay. And the issue there is not the movement, but the issue there is she didn’t have the muscular control in her legs because many people lose that eccentric contraction ability as we age. So the good news is that’s a skill that can be developed. It’s just a different type of strengthening we need to do. And it’s something that I try and teach many of my patients if they’ve ever been at risk of that kind of a thing. We look at how well they come downstairs as one of our assessment methods, and if there’s an issue there or they look like they kind of a little bit shaky as they come down, then we work on improving that, because you can save someone from a really nasty fall.

Wes Moss [00:42:32]:
Will, what about when it comes to stretching versus the, what is the other way to loosen up? Oh, the myofascial release. Are you a big fan of stretching or maybe explain? I guess the myofascial is where you’re kind of rolling out your muscles. Do you subscribe to either of those as one’s better, one’s worse, or they’re both good.

Will Harlow [00:43:01]:
The thing about stretching is that it’s less painful and you can do it a bit quicker and get a really quick result. And I don’t necessarily think that having a stretching practice is as important as having a strengthening practice. It’s lower down on my list of priorities. But if you’re someone who gets tight or you have pain in certain areas or you feel very stiff, stretching can be a really nice way to improve that. Now, as for myofascial release, one thing we need to clarify here is when we’re rolling over a muscle or we’re getting massage, we’re not actually changing the structure of that muscle. It takes way more force than we could possibly generate as a human pressing down on another human or us pressing down on a foam roller to actually change the physiology. So what’s actually happening is we’re changing the way the nervous system is responding to how we use that muscle, and that does increase the range of motion, but it’s not because we’re actually physically pulling anything apart or releasing anything, if you like. So it’s actually a neurological change as opposed to a physical one.

Wes Moss [00:44:09]:
And again, myofascial, if you could just explain what that is to our listeners.

Will Harlow [00:44:14]:
Well, as I understand it, I think people called it myofascial because they thought that when you’re rubbing over a muscle, you’re separating the muscle from the fascia. So anything myo means muscle. And fascia is the soft is kind of the connective tissue that holds the body together. It’s like the sheaths that hold everything in place. Now, I don’t think that’s actually what’s happening with myofascial release. I think it’s a change to the nervous system, which is causing us to improve our movement. But it does work for some people. It does help us to become more flexible.

Will Harlow [00:44:46]:
But if you had to put them head to head, I much prefer stretching because it’s quicker. It only takes 30 seconds to stretch a muscle. It’s less painful because I don’t know if you’ve ever tried a hard foam roller workout before, but it damn well hurts.

Wes Moss [00:45:00]:
Yeah, it does kind of hurt. So, yeah, one, you’re rolling out, and it’s. You’re trying to roll your muscles, and one is more painless. Can we talk about over the counter? Because when you get an injury and your doctor just says, ibuprofen or aleve, that can’t be that bad, right? Or do you not love, does that mask something when it comes to joint pain?

Will Harlow [00:45:28]:
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it, per se. And sometimes the over the counter medications can be useful, and the way they can be useful is by dampening down what we call the acute phase of the injury, which is the first few days after the pain becomes worse or after you suffer the injury. I actually quite like that advice. For the first couple of days following an injury or a flare up, however, the problem becomes when people take it as the permanent advice, and it’s like, well, my doctor says I should just keep taking these painkillers and rest until it goes away. Now, that is not good advice. And the reason that’s bad advice is because after about four to seven days of rest, you are going to see a pretty rapid decline in your strength in the muscle that surrounds the area, that’s the problem. So the area you’ve been resting. So if you’ve got a sore knee, for instance, and you rest it for seven days, it doesn’t take much longer than that for your quads to start to decrease in both size and strength.

Will Harlow [00:46:30]:
Okay. And that’s a big problem. Yeah, it’s super quick. Disuse happens really, really fast, and thankfully, you can regain it quite quickly. But we don’t want to get to a situation if we can avoid it where you have to do that. So painkillers can be useful, but as long as they’re used alongside an active management plan as well. So keeping it moving, keeping it nice and strong, and trying to build back up to where you were before as quickly or as sensibly as possible.

Wes Moss [00:47:02]:
If we were to look at, if you’re thinking, hey, I’ve got a problem or a pain or some issue, how do I know when I crossed the line for, hey, this is just my age, or do you still have the power to change it?

Will Harlow [00:47:17]:
I think the only way to tell is to have a go at trying to fix it, because I’ve had so many stories from the clinic of people who I treat them for ten weeks, let’s say, and we get to the end of their treatment plan, and their knee pain that they’ve had for ten years is 80% better, and they’re almost annoyed cause they’ve gone, do you know what? I thought this was just something I had to live with. My doctor told me it was, my friends told me it was, and it’s so much better in ten weeks, and I’ve suffered for ten years. And they’re like, why has no one told me about this? It’s like an annoyance. They’re furious. And I think every physical ailment, ache and pain is worth trying to fix before you just accept it. Personally, I just don’t think there’s very much downside to at least having a go. And by having a go, I mean trying to strengthen the area around it or maybe stretch the muscles around it if they’ve become tight, or just move it really regularly, much more regularly than you have been, and just see what happens. The worst that’s going to happen is it’s going to stay the same.

Will Harlow [00:48:27]:
It’s very unlikely, if you do it sensibly, that you’ll make it worse.

Wes Moss [00:48:30]:
Let’s just say you’re 50 or you’re 55 and you’ve got some aches and pains. You’re not in great shape. What should they be doing, do you see, do they need to go to a physical therapist to get going? Do they need to get a physical trainer? Do they need to go into YouTube and figure out what kind of movement they need to do? I mean, what’s a practical, how do people practically get going?

Will Harlow [00:48:51]:
You don’t need to do any of those things really. I mean, physiotherapists, physical therapists are there. If you have an ache or a pain that you can’t get rid of and you would really like to, then for you, that might be a good solution. But if you’re just an average person who wants to get moving a bit more, you want to get a bit stronger, more active, you can absolutely do that on your own. Now, I would recommend doing some combination of walking more. So more steps is a great place to start and then some kind of strengthening exercise. It doesn’t mean you have to join a gym, but there’s so many different things you can do at home. Pilates, for example, falls into that category.

Will Harlow [00:49:33]:
Doing some home based mat exercises or bed exercises falls into that category as well. You can join a gym if you want to, but it’s certainly not required. And that as a combination, just to sort of make things really simple, is such a good place to start for most people. And the strengthening you don’t have to do every day, I would do probably three times per week as a starting point, if you can. And the walking, you try and do some every day. Again, walking is better if we do it consistently, little and often, as opposed to just doing 20,000 steps on a Saturday. I think that’s such a good point.

Wes Moss [00:50:06]:
But again, 20 minutes of walking is good in a given day, 20 minutes.

Will Harlow [00:50:11]:
It depends what you already do. So if you’re someone who never does more than five minutes, I would start with five and then work up to six, seven, eight. Doesn’t have to be 20. If you’re someone who normally does 20, you might try and add five minutes of walking per day, increasing that every couple of weeks, if that makes sense.

Wes Moss [00:50:29]:
Will, how about supplements? Are there supplements and vitamins? Do they make a difference? Are they a waste of money? Do you, is there anything in particular that you like?

Will Harlow [00:50:39]:
I think supplements are a really interesting topic and as a whole, whereas I think they’re vastly overrated. Actually, supplements are prime material for marketing. Marketing companies get hold of certain supplements all the time. It’s such an easy sell because really we all want that magic pill, and supplements have that kind of allure to them. Now, in terms of how I think about supplements. I like to think about our health as a glass jarved, that we want to be as full as possible. So the fuller the jar, the healthier you are. Now, you can fill that jar with big, big rocks, or you can fill it with tiny little stones, and I would say the big rocks.

Will Harlow [00:51:24]:
Here are your exercise routine, your overall diet, your sleep and your recovery, your mental health. You know, the big important things that dictate your health. Now, supplements would fall into the category of those tiny little rocks. Wherever, if we’ve done everything else, we’ve got all those big rocks in the jar and we’ve got a tiny bit of space at the top, then you might want to look at supplements. But until you’ve nailed the other things, you’re kind of wasting your time. And the other thing, you’re not going.

Wes Moss [00:51:54]:
To supplement your whey from no movement. You’re not going to be able to take a supplement that makes up for no exercise. It’s not happening.

Will Harlow [00:52:04]:
It doesn’t exist. I mean, if there was a pill or a supplement that was a substitute for exercise, every single person would be on it because it would be a fantastic thing. But I mean, realistically, even the best supplements, if you find something that really works for you, it’s only going to give you a 5% improvement. I would have thought that’s kind of realistic. Sometimes people can get big benefits from supplements and those instances tend to be the case where the person was deficient in whatever they took. So what I recommend as a starting point for everyone who’s considering a supplement is go and get a blood screen first before you start taking something, because I’ve had many patients who go and get a blood test at their doctors and they’re like, wow, my vitamin D is through the floor. They’ve got headaches, they’ve got joint pain, they’ve got, they feel depressed, they’ve got no energy, then they take a vitamin D supplement and boom, everything’s fixed, they feel great, which is fantastic. But for someone who already has a normal vitamin D level, they’re not going to get that kind of effect.

Will Harlow [00:53:07]:
So getting tested before you just start putting things in your body is a really, really good bit of advice. I think. Now, in terms of things that can help, vitamin D is a good one, especially if you’re deficient. Not everyone needs it, but if you live in particularly kind of northern hemisphere, colder countries with less sunlight, many of us are vitamin D deficient, especially here in the UK. So for many of those people getting a blood screen will reveal that they’re low, and then vitamin D can be great for that. I quite like omega three as a supplement in some instances. I think that not just for the health of our joints, but also for our heart. It’s got some really good evidence for that as well, and possibly some data to suggest that it might have help the joints and it might help with pain, although it’s inconsistent, so we can’t say for sure.

Will Harlow [00:54:04]:
There was a big push a while ago for glucosamine. I don’t know if you guys had that over there in the US as well. It was huge here.

Wes Moss [00:54:13]:
Yeah, I heard about that a little bit. Yeah. Did that pan out?

Will Harlow [00:54:16]:
It’s never been shown to be better than a placebo.

Wes Moss [00:54:21]:
And glucosamine was something about just to make your. What was it supposed to do?

Will Harlow [00:54:26]:
So, glucosamine is found naturally within our joints. It’s part of the cartilage. And the idea was that when you take glucosamine, it finds its way into your joints and can improve the symptoms of arthritis. But like with many things in the body, it’s more complex than that. And my theory is probably the molecules are too big to pass through the gut, so they can’t get into the bloodstream, and they can’t get into the joints because they don’t seem to really help the symptoms. Now, anecdotally, there are people who say they do, but when it’s randomized controlled trials against the placebo, it’s never really been shown to be better than that placebo.

Wes Moss [00:55:02]:
So for you, you’ve got a couple. The few that may move the meter if you are deficient would be something like vitamin D and Omega three could help if you’ve got some sort of deficiency. I guess what I would ask, as we kind of wrap up today, well, first of all, what’s exciting right now for you, you’ve got hd physio, you’ve got, you’ve updated your book, you’ve got your YouTube channel, you’ve got your practice. What’s the next year look like for you? What are you excited about?

Will Harlow [00:55:34]:
Yeah, we’ve got a lot going on. So on the 1 October this year is when the updated and expanded edition of thriving beyond 50 comes out. And it’s a rewrite of the bestseller that I wrote in 2020. I’ve almost doubled the length. It’s got 33 new chapters rewritten, all the old chapters, and updated it with the latest research and all the things that I’m using with my patients in the clinic. So really, really excited for that to come out. I’m writing another book at the moment as well, which is due for release in 2026. So my head is down with that one at the moment.

Will Harlow [00:56:10]:
As you say, the clinic is growing fast. We’ve just taken on a new physio who’s starting with us later this year. And I’m also working on a membership program as well for people who want to have a library of exercise classes taught by me that they can just follow along with at home, then that is going to become available later in the year as well. So there’s a lot going on. We are very, very close to hitting a million subscribers on YouTube as well, which is really exciting to know that we’ve impacted that many people.

Wes Moss [00:56:44]:
And your channel is not will Harlow, but it’s HT physio.

Will Harlow [00:56:48]:
That’s right, that’s right. If you type in Will Harlow, it comes up as well. But it’s HT physio, over 50, specialist.

Wes Moss [00:56:55]:
By the way, what is the H and the t?

Will Harlow [00:56:57]:
So that is. My full name is Harlow Trig, believe it or not. So on my passport it’s Harlow Trig. And I dropped Trig when I was about 13 or 14 because everyone used to get it wrong. So I thought Harlow’s a lot easier and I’ve always gone by that since. But I wanted to give a nod to my mum’s maiden name as well when I started the business.

Wes Moss [00:57:21]:
Harlow Trigg. As if will couldn’t get any cooler. Geez, that’s so good. All right, last thing, kind of what’s your prescription? Easiest thing you can change just today to get back on a better health plan. Lifespan healthspan I think the take home.

Will Harlow [00:57:41]:
Really is try not to get overwhelmed by how complicated everything looks in the world of exercise. It’s really simple. Just pick something you enjoy because that’s the thing you’re more likely to stick at and then move more and do it consistently. If you like walking, then walk, if you like cycling, then cycle. If you like doing a little bit of strength training, then do a bit of that three or four times a week. Just making one small change like that and committing to it for a number of months is going to make a huge difference over a period of time. So that would be my advice to everyone.

Wes Moss [00:58:15]:
Listen, man, thank you for doing this. I know that our time zones are just a little bit different. We’re. But we appreciate you coming to us live from the United Kingdom. I wish you continued success with all the things that you’re doing. With HT Physio, the YouTube channel, the practice, and your book. I know how hard it is to how long it takes to get something ready to go publish worthy because you want it to be a bestseller. You want it to be helpful, and you continue to do that.

Wes Moss [00:58:46]:
So keep up. Keep up the great work, man.

Will Harlow [00:58:49]:
Thank you so much wes. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. It’s great to speak to you.

Mallory [00:58:54]:
Hey y’all. This is Mallory with the retire sooner team. Please be sure to rate and subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend. If you have any questions, you can find us@wesmoss.com that’s wesmoss.com. you can also follow us on Instagram and YouTube. You’ll find us under the handle retiresunerpodcast and now for our shows. Disclosure this information is provided to you as a resource for informational purposes only and is not to be viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principal.

Mallory [00:59:25]:
There is no guaranteed offer that investment return, yield, or performance will be achieved. Stock prices fluctuate, sometimes rapidly and dramatically, due to factors affecting individual companies, particular industries or sectors, or general market conditions for stocks paying dividends. Dividends are not guaranteed and can increase, decrease, or be eliminated without notice. Fixed income securities involve interest rate, credit inflation and reinvestment risks and possible loss of principal. As interest rates rise, the value of fixed income securities falls. Past performance is not indicative of future results. When considering any investment vehicle, this information is being presented without consideration of the investment objectives, risk tolerance, or financial circumstances of any specific investor and might not be suitable for all investors. Investment decisions should not be based solely on information contained here.

Mallory [01:00:09]:
This information is not intended to and should not form a primary basis for any investment decision that you may make. Always consult your own legal tax or investment advisor before making any investment tax, estate or financial planning considerations or decisions. The information contained here is strictly an opinion and it is not known whether the strategies will be successful. The views and opinions expressed are for educational purposes only as of the date of production and may change without notice at any time based on numerous factors such as market and other conditions.